Pedantic F1 numbering system question
Discussion
So, all the F1 cars are allocated car numbers based on their position in the Constructor's championship the previous year.
The exception goes to McLaren in 2009, who finished second in the CC but get numbers 1 and 2 because Lewis won the WDC.
However, within a team, I always assumed that numbers were then also allocated to each driver based on their finishing position the previous year.
Example: In 2008 Heidfeld was No. 3 and Kubica No. 4 because Heidfeld finished above Kubica in the WDC in 2007. This year it's reversed and Kubica is No. 5 and Heidfeld No. 6 due to their finishing positions in 08.
If this is true then how come for 2009, Raikkonen is No. 3 and Massa No. 4?
Raikkonen was 3rd in the championship and Massa was obviously higher in 2nd so why isn't Massa numbered lower?
Is this just a Ferrari thing because Raikkonen's paid more?
The only other team that has done this is Red Bull - Webber is number 14 and Vettel 15 despite Vettel finishing higher in the 08 WDC. This you can sort of understand though, being as Vettel is new in the team.
So why Ferrari?
Should I care?
Should I get over my Rain-Man-Style numbering obsession?
The exception goes to McLaren in 2009, who finished second in the CC but get numbers 1 and 2 because Lewis won the WDC.
However, within a team, I always assumed that numbers were then also allocated to each driver based on their finishing position the previous year.
Example: In 2008 Heidfeld was No. 3 and Kubica No. 4 because Heidfeld finished above Kubica in the WDC in 2007. This year it's reversed and Kubica is No. 5 and Heidfeld No. 6 due to their finishing positions in 08.
If this is true then how come for 2009, Raikkonen is No. 3 and Massa No. 4?
Raikkonen was 3rd in the championship and Massa was obviously higher in 2nd so why isn't Massa numbered lower?
Is this just a Ferrari thing because Raikkonen's paid more?
The only other team that has done this is Red Bull - Webber is number 14 and Vettel 15 despite Vettel finishing higher in the 08 WDC. This you can sort of understand though, being as Vettel is new in the team.
So why Ferrari?
Should I care?
Should I get over my Rain-Man-Style numbering obsession?
Each team is allocated 2 numbers, I believe the order is based on when their application is received by the FIA. They can give them to which ever driver they want.
Notable execptions were Mansell who ran with 'red' 5 and Ferrari who often had 27 and 28.
Notable execptions were Mansell who ran with 'red' 5 and Ferrari who often had 27 and 28.
Edited by garycat on Tuesday 27th January 16:36
I thought, although have no proof, that the teams could then decide for themselves who got which number they were allocated. For example, Damon Hill was number 0 after Mansell and then Prost did not compete when they, and Williams, would have had number 1. Seem to remember it being because neither Prost nor Senna wanted to be a zero.
garycat said:
Each team is allocated 2 numbers, I believe the order is based on when their application is received by the FIA. They can give them to which ever driver they want.
Notable execptions were Mansell who ran with 'red' 5 and Ferrari who often had 27 and 28.
If it's in order of application to the FIA, it seems a bit odd that all the teams are numbered in Constructor Championship order? (Apart from McLaren for reasons stated earlier)Notable execptions were Mansell who ran with 'red' 5 and Ferrari who often had 27 and 28.
andyps said:
I thought, although have no proof, that the teams could then decide for themselves who got which number they were allocated. For example, Damon Hill was number 0 after Mansell and then Prost did not compete when they, and Williams, would have had number 1. Seem to remember it being because neither Prost nor Senna wanted to be a zero.
IIRC, in those years, Williams were due to have numbers 1 and 2 due to their driver winning the WDC the year before. Both drivers either left or retired and only the WDC can carry number 1 so the FIA offered them 2 and 3 or 0 and 2. You're correct that neither Senna or Prost wanted to be a Zero so it passed to our Damon. If I'm not mistaken, in '94, they slyly morphed the 0 into a Renault badge
I'm sure I read an article about this recently, although I read so much that I forget twice what i remember. 27 & 28 were also McLaren's for a while.
Personally, I think there should be a slightly more NASCAR-style approach, where drivers can take whatever number they like and carry throughout their careers.
Personally, I think there should be a slightly more NASCAR-style approach, where drivers can take whatever number they like and carry throughout their careers.
I know that the world champion always got to have the Number 1. Regardless of where his team finished.
I thought the world champion got number 1. Unless there is no world champion racing, then his replacement in the team gets 0.
Hie team mate gets number 2
Then its in order of where the teams finished in the constructors, but a few years back teams could stick to their nunbrs- for years Ferrair had 26/27, regardless of where they finished. Any idea why?
But thats the 4th/5th different variation. It would be nice to know for definite
I thought the world champion got number 1. Unless there is no world champion racing, then his replacement in the team gets 0.
Hie team mate gets number 2
Then its in order of where the teams finished in the constructors, but a few years back teams could stick to their nunbrs- for years Ferrair had 26/27, regardless of where they finished. Any idea why?
But thats the 4th/5th different variation. It would be nice to know for definite
Muzzer said:
andyps said:
I thought, although have no proof, that the teams could then decide for themselves who got which number they were allocated. For example, Damon Hill was number 0 after Mansell and then Prost did not compete when they, and Williams, would have had number 1. Seem to remember it being because neither Prost nor Senna wanted to be a zero.
IIRC, in those years, Williams were due to have numbers 1 and 2 due to their driver winning the WDC the year before. Both drivers either left or retired and only the WDC can carry number 1 so the FIA offered them 2 and 3 or 0 and 2. You're correct that neither Senna or Prost wanted to be a Zero so it passed to our Damon. If I'm not mistaken, in '94, they slyly morphed the 0 into a Renault badge
RichB said:
I thought the reason Hill had 0 was because he became a driver when Senna was killed and for obvious reasons Damon felt uneasy taking Senna's no 1 number.
No, he had the number 0 all year - 1 always goes to the world champion and Senna was not that at the time so it wasn't allocated that year.garycat said:
There's your answer, with only things to add that prior to '96 the world champion drivers team had 1 & 2, and if a different team had had those numbers the year before they got the new teams old numbers (in effect it pretty much ended up as mclaren and ferrari/then williams swapping). In adsence of world champion driver (as in '94) the team used 0 as only world champ driver can have 1 (except in a few very rare cases where he was substitued for a few races due to injury)....was an article in mark hughes article ( i think) in autosport a few months back
andyps said:
RichB said:
I thought the reason Hill had 0 was because he became a driver when Senna was killed and for obvious reasons Damon felt uneasy taking Senna's no 1 number.
No, he had the number 0 all year - 1 always goes to the world champion and Senna was not that at the time so it wasn't allocated that year.andyps said:
RichB said:
I thought the reason Hill had 0 was because he became a driver when Senna was killed and for obvious reasons Damon felt uneasy taking Senna's no 1 number.
No, he had the number 0 all year - 1 always goes to the world champion and Senna was not that at the time so it wasn't allocated that year.OJ said:
Eric Mc said:
F1 numbers are pretty much invisible these days - which is a real shame as I always thought that big clear numbers were a clear badge of a racing car.
...and also a valuable space for advertisingAs long as you are not the World Drivers Champion (who has to run car #1), then each team is allocated their numbers and you can give which driver you want the number.
Kimi probably has the #3 because he has won a world title, and yes he is paid more than Felipe.
Kimi probably has the #3 because he has won a world title, and yes he is paid more than Felipe.
mko9 said:
Honda has had pretty visible numbers for the last two years, on the end plates of the rear wing. One of the few admirable things about the car to be brutally honest. I wish more teams would follow suit.
Thats probably because they had no sponsors to fill the space. A fact that may well have led to their demise in the end.Forums | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff