When should the FOTA leave the FIA?
Discussion
german tony said:
Let's face it, it's no longer a question of if is it?
I think they should go before the Monaco GP this year - I'm sure the race can go ahead, it's not like Monaco needs the FIA or anything is it?
F1 should have kicked the FIA into touch years ago. The spanking prick at the helm has done nothing to improve the spectacle and when all the teams and drivers put together a new package which has the full support of fans is put in front of him, what happens, it gets kicked out.I think they should go before the Monaco GP this year - I'm sure the race can go ahead, it's not like Monaco needs the FIA or anything is it?
Maybe the FOTA should have handed in the findings of the survey of the fans, along with how they want to improve the show using two young lasses in Nazi - no that should read kinky german solder outfits!! - then maybe he would have listened to what they had to say.
The FIA is doing their upmost to kill this sport - I say GO NOW.
german tony said:
Let's face it, it's no longer a question of if is it?
I think they should go before the Monaco GP this year - I'm sure the race can go ahead, it's not like Monaco needs the FIA or anything is it?
I'm left wondering why they haven't left already....I think they should go before the Monaco GP this year - I'm sure the race can go ahead, it's not like Monaco needs the FIA or anything is it?
This season has already turned into a farce, a record by anyones' standards....
Nick M said:
german tony said:
Let's face it, it's no longer a question of if is it?
I think they should go before the Monaco GP this year - I'm sure the race can go ahead, it's not like Monaco needs the FIA or anything is it?
I'm left wondering why they haven't left already....I think they should go before the Monaco GP this year - I'm sure the race can go ahead, it's not like Monaco needs the FIA or anything is it?
This season has already turned into a farce, a record by anyones' standards....
Wanta996Gotta said:
Nick M said:
german tony said:
Let's face it, it's no longer a question of if is it?
I think they should go before the Monaco GP this year - I'm sure the race can go ahead, it's not like Monaco needs the FIA or anything is it?
I'm left wondering why they haven't left already....I think they should go before the Monaco GP this year - I'm sure the race can go ahead, it's not like Monaco needs the FIA or anything is it?
This season has already turned into a farce, a record by anyones' standards....
Its just so blindingly obvious what the FIA are up to, as usual its time to divide and conquer.
1. The defuser row, left till the eve of the first gp
2. Points system changed twice on the week before the first race
3. Toyota penalised for floppy wing
4. Trulli penalised for overtaking under safety car
5 Hamilton disqualified for lying to the stewards
5. Vettel now in front of stewards for implications of his racing incident.
Have i missed anything? I bet its not long before we can add to it.
How the hell are we suposed to keep track of that lot?
Its seems to me the fia are competing just as hard as the teams are for supremacy of f1
1. The defuser row, left till the eve of the first gp
2. Points system changed twice on the week before the first race
3. Toyota penalised for floppy wing
4. Trulli penalised for overtaking under safety car
5 Hamilton disqualified for lying to the stewards
5. Vettel now in front of stewards for implications of his racing incident.
Have i missed anything? I bet its not long before we can add to it.
How the hell are we suposed to keep track of that lot?
Its seems to me the fia are competing just as hard as the teams are for supremacy of f1
Edited by philis on Thursday 2nd April 15:26
philis said:
Its just so blindingly obvious what the FIA are up to, as usual its time to divide and conquer.
1. The defuser row, left till the eve of the first gp
2. Points system changed twice on the week before the first race
3. Toyota penalised for floppy wing
4. Trulli penalised for overtaking under safety car
5 Hamilton disqualified for lying to the stewards
5. Vettel now in front of stewards for implications of his racing incident.
Have i missed anything? I bet its not long before we can add to it.
How the hell are we suposed to keep track of that lot?
Its seems to me the fia are competing just as hard as the teams are for supremacy of f1
& that's only this week's list, you wait until Sepang's over with all it's driving in the rain & safety car sillyness.1. The defuser row, left till the eve of the first gp
2. Points system changed twice on the week before the first race
3. Toyota penalised for floppy wing
4. Trulli penalised for overtaking under safety car
5 Hamilton disqualified for lying to the stewards
5. Vettel now in front of stewards for implications of his racing incident.
Have i missed anything? I bet its not long before we can add to it.
How the hell are we suposed to keep track of that lot?
Its seems to me the fia are competing just as hard as the teams are for supremacy of f1
Edited by philis on Thursday 2nd April 15:26
I agree with everything everyones saying here, they should have left 2 years ago, but now its beyond a joke, they either need to leave, or take it over.
If you read Bernie and Mosley's Wikipedia pages they explain how they effectively did the same to the previous FIA(or whatever they were called back then), booted them out and took over.
fingers crossed Jean Todt gets Mosley's job in November, he can fire Bernie, and we can get back to some real racing.
If you read Bernie and Mosley's Wikipedia pages they explain how they effectively did the same to the previous FIA(or whatever they were called back then), booted them out and took over.
fingers crossed Jean Todt gets Mosley's job in November, he can fire Bernie, and we can get back to some real racing.
I've been pondering this one again, and I have to say that while I hope it happens, I'm getting less convinced about the overall 'unity' of FOTA and whether it has the balls to go it alone.
I have a feeling that there are certain factions within FOTA, and not Ferrari, who would very quickly jump into bed with Max and / or Bernie if there was a few quid in it for them. Force India are the main ones, closely followed by Renault and Brawn (although prepared to be corrected on the latter if BE didn't cough up as much cash as I thought be did as part of the deal to keep them on the grid).
Even though FI and BGP have Merc engines, I think they'd drop those like hot bricks and pick up the cheaper option from the FIA (Cosworth) if it meant they somehow got a bigger slice of the pie.
I really hope I'm proved wrong, but I'm getting more sceptical about this as the days go by...
Gillet said:
I agree with everything everyones saying here, they should have left 2 years ago, but now its beyond a joke, they either need to leave, or take it over.
If you read Bernie and Mosley's Wikipedia pages they explain how they effectively did the same to the previous FIA(or whatever they were called back then), booted them out and took over.
fingers crossed Jean Todt gets Mosley's job in November, he can fire Bernie, and we can get back to some real racing.
I fail to see how Jean Todt would be an unbiased leader. Was it not he who resisted joining FOTA when in charge of Ferrari. Also I don't believe his ethics would suit a "new regime".If you read Bernie and Mosley's Wikipedia pages they explain how they effectively did the same to the previous FIA(or whatever they were called back then), booted them out and took over.
fingers crossed Jean Todt gets Mosley's job in November, he can fire Bernie, and we can get back to some real racing.
He would be just as bad as SMax.
TVR Moneypit said:
PW said:
philis said:
Have i missed anything? I bet its not long before we can add to it.
How the hell are we suposed to keep track of that lot?
I make it 7 penalties from one full race weekend and 2 practice sessions.How the hell are we suposed to keep track of that lot?
- Toyota's DQ from qualifying
- Hamilton's 5 place penalty in qualifying
- Trulli's 25 second penalty
- Vettel's 10 place penalty for Malaysia
- Red Bull fined $50,000 for telling Vettel to continue in a 3 wheeled car
- Hamilton's DQ from Australia
- Barrichello's 5 place penalty in qualifying tomorrow
It is utterly ridiculous. What other "top level" professional sport could manage such a feat?
William's protest against Ferrari & Red Bull's wing-like mirror supports in Australia was withdrawn "in the interests of the sport" - a shame the FIA cannot follow William's dignified example.
Be careful what you wish for. There's nothing wrong with the FiA per se. In fact I think having two 'groups' with power and authority over our sport is a good thing. It stops either being in the ascendant. It appears at the moment that the FiA under its current president is after total control. Whilst this would be a dreadful scenario, F1 run by FOTA would be just as bad, albeit at some time in the future.
FiA should be there to balance the conflicts of interest between the manufacturers and the independents. In has favoured one over the other at times, one only has to cast one's mind back to Balestra and FOCA, with the emphasis on the constructors for whatever reason, but I would see this being just as prejudiced if FOTA ran the series.
Further, and I'm making no suggestions about the current situation, we are talking £multi-million. To have one person/group in total control of this sort of money is just asking for corruption. It's a bit like government: countries where the judiciary and the executive are one of the same have major problems with their finances. Forget about democracy, it's all rubbish. Real sensible government is having the power of each group running the country limited, curtailed, that's what makes it efficient and effective.
What we need at the moment is not a frying pan/fire situation but someone who has the confidence of FOTA in control of the FiA and a sensible way of curtailing that person's authority.
Mind you, it does not have to be the FiA that controls the legislative side of the sport. It could be, for instance, a Motor Sports Federation. All it mustn't be is under the control of the teams. Or under the control of Mossy.
The idea of a French group running F1 was sensible when almost all teams were run from England. There could be no favouritism because who could they favour? Ligier? When Renault came on the scene there was a strong suggestion, and not only by those in the know, but me as well, that things would have been different if Renault had opted for normally aspirated. But then, despite all the money they threw at their cars, they still struggled and Renault were still beaten except in odd circumstances. But the turbo era nearly crippled F1 but not because of the engines but the way the sport was run by the governing body.
Balestra was a bit of a joke. He lacked authority, consistency and support. He gave me the impression he only stopped off at the FiA office when his route to some dinner engagement ran nearby. Just the sort of person you need in control of the FiA. It was only when the manufacturers formed a power group and sidled up to Balestra that things started to be problematical in that F1 itself was under threat.
I can see them not so much starting a new F1 as such but putting their investment into some other bit of motorsport. With the manufacturers go the sponsors, the money, the TV, the drivers, the glamour, the title of grand prix. It will probably be some form of open-wheeler. The success of NASCAR cannot have passed the manufacturers by. Fairly cheap and cheerful, that's what will become grand prix racing and all F1 will be is cheap.
That's my worry.
I can't see F1 as I know it surviving. 69 seasons isn't bad going. Perhaps, like some old dog that's had enough and is in a bit of pain, we should consider putting F1 out of its misery.
If there was a World Touring Car Championship that was fully supported by the manufacturers and it was the series that had technological innovation, thrills, glamour, spills and lots and lots of excitement, I'd probably drift over, especially if F1 became a super Formula Ford. I'd prefer World Sports Car but I don't think that would grab the manufacturers. If they ran it at Silverstone whilst F1 was visiting Borneo between the Madagascar GP and the Solomon Islands GP I know which one I’d turn on the TV to watch. I’d probably even go.
The title Grand Prix belongs to the biggest prize. If that doesn’t mean F1 then it’s not the GP.
Still I’m off tomorrow to watch rugby. That’s a much more sensible sport. The fighting takes place on the pitch and afterwards they are all mates in the bar.
But I’m really nervous about the future of F1. This is much more serious that any time Balestra threw his weight around and it was dodgy then.
FiA should be there to balance the conflicts of interest between the manufacturers and the independents. In has favoured one over the other at times, one only has to cast one's mind back to Balestra and FOCA, with the emphasis on the constructors for whatever reason, but I would see this being just as prejudiced if FOTA ran the series.
Further, and I'm making no suggestions about the current situation, we are talking £multi-million. To have one person/group in total control of this sort of money is just asking for corruption. It's a bit like government: countries where the judiciary and the executive are one of the same have major problems with their finances. Forget about democracy, it's all rubbish. Real sensible government is having the power of each group running the country limited, curtailed, that's what makes it efficient and effective.
What we need at the moment is not a frying pan/fire situation but someone who has the confidence of FOTA in control of the FiA and a sensible way of curtailing that person's authority.
Mind you, it does not have to be the FiA that controls the legislative side of the sport. It could be, for instance, a Motor Sports Federation. All it mustn't be is under the control of the teams. Or under the control of Mossy.
The idea of a French group running F1 was sensible when almost all teams were run from England. There could be no favouritism because who could they favour? Ligier? When Renault came on the scene there was a strong suggestion, and not only by those in the know, but me as well, that things would have been different if Renault had opted for normally aspirated. But then, despite all the money they threw at their cars, they still struggled and Renault were still beaten except in odd circumstances. But the turbo era nearly crippled F1 but not because of the engines but the way the sport was run by the governing body.
Balestra was a bit of a joke. He lacked authority, consistency and support. He gave me the impression he only stopped off at the FiA office when his route to some dinner engagement ran nearby. Just the sort of person you need in control of the FiA. It was only when the manufacturers formed a power group and sidled up to Balestra that things started to be problematical in that F1 itself was under threat.
I can see them not so much starting a new F1 as such but putting their investment into some other bit of motorsport. With the manufacturers go the sponsors, the money, the TV, the drivers, the glamour, the title of grand prix. It will probably be some form of open-wheeler. The success of NASCAR cannot have passed the manufacturers by. Fairly cheap and cheerful, that's what will become grand prix racing and all F1 will be is cheap.
That's my worry.
I can't see F1 as I know it surviving. 69 seasons isn't bad going. Perhaps, like some old dog that's had enough and is in a bit of pain, we should consider putting F1 out of its misery.
If there was a World Touring Car Championship that was fully supported by the manufacturers and it was the series that had technological innovation, thrills, glamour, spills and lots and lots of excitement, I'd probably drift over, especially if F1 became a super Formula Ford. I'd prefer World Sports Car but I don't think that would grab the manufacturers. If they ran it at Silverstone whilst F1 was visiting Borneo between the Madagascar GP and the Solomon Islands GP I know which one I’d turn on the TV to watch. I’d probably even go.
The title Grand Prix belongs to the biggest prize. If that doesn’t mean F1 then it’s not the GP.
Still I’m off tomorrow to watch rugby. That’s a much more sensible sport. The fighting takes place on the pitch and afterwards they are all mates in the bar.
But I’m really nervous about the future of F1. This is much more serious that any time Balestra threw his weight around and it was dodgy then.
Derek Smith said:
Is that a 5-hour argument or the full day.
Neither really, I just meant that he doesn't appear to put his own ego first or demand attention unlike some people in F1. But I tried to qualify that by saying I'm not sure if it's suitable quality for the head FIA job.A full day argument would be writing the job description for this position
Derek Smith said:
zac510 said:
To his credit Todt has always been dedicated to the organisation he's working for and always puts them first (arguably even over himself).
Is that a 5-hour argument or the full day.
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