Hamilton's Punishment
Discussion
I know whether Lewis is guilty or not has been dicussed on other threads over and over, so I don't want to dicuss this now. Instead, assuming the FIA have got it right, I can't help but think Lewis has got away lightly so far. If he has deliberately lied to the Stewards to try and get another driver demoted this strikes me as a very bad and unsportman-like thing to do and really puts question marks against his character.
I can't help but feel he should get further punishment, maybe even a ban from a race or two (although not from the championship completely)? I think the FIA should make an example of him (he is the current WDC after all) to ensure no other driver is ever tempted to lie to stewards in the future.
What are others thoughts on this?
Note: I am a Hamilton fan which is why I'm so disappointed that he lied* to the Stewards.
I can't help but feel he should get further punishment, maybe even a ban from a race or two (although not from the championship completely)? I think the FIA should make an example of him (he is the current WDC after all) to ensure no other driver is ever tempted to lie to stewards in the future.
What are others thoughts on this?
Note: I am a Hamilton fan which is why I'm so disappointed that he lied* to the Stewards.
- he has been found guilty by the governing body which is all that's requried for this thread. Please don't post to discuss whether he's guilty as that's already being discussed elsewhere.
I already said this, but I'll say it again:
It is quite clear that the investigation was led very poorly and if it had been done right, would have resulted in a very different outcome. If the first investigation would have been done properly, the FIA would have checked all material available to them, mainly video footage, transcripts and telemetry data. If this had been done, Trulli would have *never* received a punishment in the first place.
Hamilton/McLaren would't have been asked the wrong questions, as the transcripts would have left no doubt as to what actually happened on the race track. The only issue would have been - "Ok, you let Trulli pass unrightfully, where do we go from here?".
The outcome would have been either keep Trulli in 3rd place or swap the two around.
Who is going to punish the FIA for not doing their jobs correctly either?
I don't see much sense in altering race performances due to events that happened *after* the race. How many times were drivers punished with fines and not with artificial altering of the score board? Fine Hamilton for lying so that it'll hurt him, but don't alter the race results!
It is quite clear that the investigation was led very poorly and if it had been done right, would have resulted in a very different outcome. If the first investigation would have been done properly, the FIA would have checked all material available to them, mainly video footage, transcripts and telemetry data. If this had been done, Trulli would have *never* received a punishment in the first place.
Hamilton/McLaren would't have been asked the wrong questions, as the transcripts would have left no doubt as to what actually happened on the race track. The only issue would have been - "Ok, you let Trulli pass unrightfully, where do we go from here?".
The outcome would have been either keep Trulli in 3rd place or swap the two around.
Who is going to punish the FIA for not doing their jobs correctly either?
I don't see much sense in altering race performances due to events that happened *after* the race. How many times were drivers punished with fines and not with artificial altering of the score board? Fine Hamilton for lying so that it'll hurt him, but don't alter the race results!
Colesy21 said:
I'm not talking about the FIA's decision/process or Hamilton's guilt/innocence, just the punishment. One disqualification seems quite light for deliberately lying to stewards to get another driver demoted.
out of interest, he is accused of not telling them stuff, I don't think he actually told them anything that was un-true?Either way, it's bad form, I don't get why he was instructed not to say what he had already said publically...
Scuffers said:
Colesy21 said:
I'm not talking about the FIA's decision/process or Hamilton's guilt/innocence, just the punishment. One disqualification seems quite light for deliberately lying to stewards to get another driver demoted.
out of interest, he is accused of not telling them stuff, I don't think he actually told them anything that was un-true?Either way, it's bad form, I don't get why he was instructed not to say what he had already said publically...
Ryan, who has been with the team for 35 years, accompanied Hamilton to the post-race hearing, where the decision was taken to elevate Hamilton to third place. At the inquiry Hamilton and Ryan both claimed there was no instruction from the team to the 24-year-old asserting he must let Trulli by. But radio traffic released by the FIA yesterday confirm he was twice ordered to do so. Furthermore, in an interview immediately after the race and prior to the stewards' hearing, Hamilton admitted he was told by the team to let the Toyota driver through.
McLaren suspended long-standing sporting director Dave Ryan earlier today, blaming him for the misleading statements to stewards that resulted the disqualification of both Hamilton and the team. Martin Whitmarsh sent Ryan home shortly before first practice for this weekend's Malaysian grand prix. Whitmarsh said he and Ryan discussed the situation Thursday night and Friday morning before Ryan's suspension was confirmed.
"As we explored it more with him over the past 24 hours, he was not as full and complete as he should have been," Whitmarsh said. "I had to take an incredibly difficult decision. I have personally known Davy for 20 years."
Whitmarsh acknowledged Hamilton also misled the stewards, but said he was acting on Ryan's lead. "Lewis was not entirely truthful," Whitmarsh said. "In the heat of the moment, [Ryan's] judgment was to not give a truthful account, and Lewis was led by that. The team and myself are not only deeply embarrassed but deeply regretful."
My take is FIA asked LH questions which he answered. By not saying certain things they implied he lied by using lawyer speak that he mislead them. I think he has been stitched up.
added - not just by FIA but Ryan
Who in the history of F1 has been disQ for something they said post race? No one to my knowledge
added - not just by FIA but Ryan
Who in the history of F1 has been disQ for something they said post race? No one to my knowledge
Edited by Zead on Friday 3rd April 12:13
My take is that if Ryan goes, it's worth all the aggro.
It's a lot of fuss about nothing really. What was said and not said has no bearing on the case before the stewards: did Trulli pass under yellows. If he did then he should have been punished - but not to the extent of 25 seconds, that was unjust. The in-car footage is conclusive.
Drivers not telling the stewards the truth? In my heart of hearts I have the suspicion that once or twice in the past this may have happened. Well, perhpas just the once.
It's a lot of fuss about nothing really. What was said and not said has no bearing on the case before the stewards: did Trulli pass under yellows. If he did then he should have been punished - but not to the extent of 25 seconds, that was unjust. The in-car footage is conclusive.
Drivers not telling the stewards the truth? In my heart of hearts I have the suspicion that once or twice in the past this may have happened. Well, perhpas just the once.
A little bit of advice someone gave me years ago might be applicable here (to a degree):
"Know what you say, but don't always say what you know..."
The inference being, if you're going to say something, be damn sure of your facts. But don't necessarily share everything you know.
If LH and DR weren't asked a question because the stewards hadn't reviewed all the information they had available then there's no onus on them to tell the stewards particular facts. For example "Trulli went off and I overtook him, and he then re-passed me". Factually correct, no implication of any instructions or conversations about it, no lies. Just stating the most basic of facts. It's not misleading in any way, it's just not expanding on your explanation and giving more detail. Competition doesn't stop once the checkered flag drops...
I would, however, expect a half-intelligent steward to ask some questions to establish why Trulli re-passed, whether there had been any communication between driver and team, what instructions were given, etc., etc. I would also have expected them to have done a better job of preparing for the meeting.
BUT, if LH / DR were asked direct questions by the stewards to which they responded untruthfully, well that's a different matter entirely and they should be punished.
Race stewards in Australia initially disqualified Toyota's Trulli from third place for passing Hamilton behind the safety car.
But it later emerged that Hamilton had told the stewards he had not been asked by McLaren to let Trulli pass him when the team's radio transmission proved that he had.
Following that discovery, Hamilton and his McLaren team were duly stripped of their podium finish and all points by the FIA - Italian driver Trulli and his Toyota team have been reinstated to third.
"I could not tell you how sorry I am for the embarrassment," Hamilton told a news conference after his opening practice sessions in Sepang on Friday.
"I sincerely apologise to the race stewards for wasting their time and making them look silly.
"When I went into the meeting, I had no intention (to lie). I just wanted to tell my story and see what happened. I was misled and that's just how it went.
Hamilton is at the centre of a row that has claimed the job of top McLaren
"I want to say sorry to all my fans. I am not a liar or a dishonest person, I am a team player. If the team ask me to do something, I generally do it.
"But I felt awkward and uncomfortable.
"This is not an easy thing to do, to step back and realise I was in the wrong. But I was in the wrong, I was misled."
But it later emerged that Hamilton had told the stewards he had not been asked by McLaren to let Trulli pass him when the team's radio transmission proved that he had.
Following that discovery, Hamilton and his McLaren team were duly stripped of their podium finish and all points by the FIA - Italian driver Trulli and his Toyota team have been reinstated to third.
"I could not tell you how sorry I am for the embarrassment," Hamilton told a news conference after his opening practice sessions in Sepang on Friday.
"I sincerely apologise to the race stewards for wasting their time and making them look silly.
"When I went into the meeting, I had no intention (to lie). I just wanted to tell my story and see what happened. I was misled and that's just how it went.
Hamilton is at the centre of a row that has claimed the job of top McLaren
"I want to say sorry to all my fans. I am not a liar or a dishonest person, I am a team player. If the team ask me to do something, I generally do it.
"But I felt awkward and uncomfortable.
"This is not an easy thing to do, to step back and realise I was in the wrong. But I was in the wrong, I was misled."
Colesy21 said:
I can't help but feel he should get further punishment, maybe even a ban from a race or two (although not from the championship completely)? I think the FIA should make an example of him (he is the current WDC after all) to ensure no other driver is ever tempted to lie to stewards in the future.
What are others thoughts on this?
I think the punishment is a fair one. The disqualification from the one race is damaging for both team and driver in the loss of points. The damage in terms of publicity and a tarnished reputation is far worse for both Hamilton and McLaren however.What are others thoughts on this?
I think it is very disappointing that they would try and do Trulli down in this way and Hamilton's reputation amongst the other drivers is bound to be affected I would have thought.
mattikake said:
Nick M said:
acf8181 said:
Going back to the orig incident, surely if trulli had dropped it off the track then lewis WAS rightfully ahead?
Yep. So all the more reason why it was just daft to do what they did in the stewards hearing....I'm a Lewis fan because of his driving style, and therefore recently I've become a McLaren fan, but aren't McLaren CRAP at cheating????
1. Sending your wife to Woking Prontaprint with a Ferrari branded technical folder.
2. Telling the stewards the opposite of what is on the press and pit radio recordings.
If, you are going to cheat guys, do it properly! Don't get caught and don't leave incriminating evidence!
1. Sending your wife to Woking Prontaprint with a Ferrari branded technical folder.
2. Telling the stewards the opposite of what is on the press and pit radio recordings.
If, you are going to cheat guys, do it properly! Don't get caught and don't leave incriminating evidence!
mattikake said:
Nick M said:
acf8181 said:
Going back to the orig incident, surely if trulli had dropped it off the track then lewis WAS rightfully ahead?
Yep. So all the more reason why it was just daft to do what they did in the stewards hearing....I do not believe LH was 'misled'. He knew the full facts. Did D Ryan put him under hypnosis? Or trick him in some way? I doubt it. The lad still wont fully admit his mistake and Ryan will take the fall on his behalf, as you would expect. Gutless.
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