Hamilton to Brawn or Williams in 2010?

[308mate]

Its not a headline or a rumour, just a hypothesis.

After his team's effort in Oz and all the previous fiascos, plus the apparent animosity between the FIA and Mclaren (which Im starting to believe may be partly justified), how long is Lewis (or his father) going to put up with up Mclaren's incompetence and mismanagement?

How many drivers have had 2yrs without the championship then won it again?

They have a narrow window of opportunity and its starting to look like Hamilton has been successful in spite of the team, just as much as as a result of them.

[DSM2]

308mate said:

They have a narrow window of opportunity and its starting to look like Hamilton has been successful in spite of the team, just as much as as a result of them.

You are joking aren't you? He would have been nothing without the unprecedented support of McLaren for the last 12 years or whatever it is.

And it remains to be seen but this year might show that Hamilton is not the man to help them develop a new car - little sign of it so far.

[308mate]

DSM2 said:

308mate said:

They have a narrow window of opportunity and its starting to look like Hamilton has been successful in spite of the team, just as much as as a result of them.

You are joking aren't you? He would have been nothing without the unprecedented support of McLaren for the last 12 years or whatever it is.

Im not denying that.

DSM2 said:

And it remains to be seen but this year might show that Hamilton is not the man to help them develop a new car - little sign of it so far.

And that's not my point either.

My point is, Lewis' career works to a plan, his dad is savvy and he has had to do alot of recovering from his teams poor decision making in the last 2.1 seasons. He's had to start from behind the 8-ball and had his goal-posts moved more in the last 2 seasons than most drivers do in a career. It cant last. I reckon he will be getting offers and I reckon his he will take one of them.

[Holst]

DSM2 said:

308mate said:

They have a narrow window of opportunity and its starting to look like Hamilton has been successful in spite of the team, just as much as as a result of them.

You are joking aren't you? He would have been nothing without the unprecedented support of McLaren for the last 12 years or whatever it is.

And it remains to be seen but this year might show that Hamilton is not the man to help them develop a new car - little sign of it so far.

I think there is very limited scope for a driver to develop a slow car.

A good driver might be able to get good performances from a quick but difficult to drive car. A car thats fundamentally slower than the competition needs the engineers to make it faster.

Personally I dont see Hamilton jumping to another team so quickly.
I dont think there is anything fundamentally wrong with mclaren, yes they have missed out on the defuser and kers isnt helping at the moment.. but the fundamentals of the team are still good and I dont see any reason that they wont be more competitive next year.

If Hamilton feels that Mclaren are in decline then he may want to move, but getting out of the mclaren contract wont be easy and it will definately be expensive. I think he will stay there for at least one more year.. if they are still underperforming and he gets an offer from a more competitive team then he will move.. but trying to predict that far into the future is impossible.

[RichB]

308mate said:

How many drivers have had 2yrs without the championship then won it again?

Graham Hill, Michael Schumacher, Alain Prost, Jack Brabham, Fangio, Nelson Piquet... probably a few more. Next question

[AndrewW-G]

Would be interesting to see if hamilton is capable of doing what Schumacher did at Ferrari and take an underperforming team and be pivotal in turning it into a championship winning outfit.

Cant see Patrick Head or Sir Frank either paying the amount he'd want or putting up with both hamilton and his fathers idea's on team work and loyalty. they'd be far better to put Ant Davidson into one of their cars for the 2010 season

[308mate]

RichB said:

308mate said:

How many drivers have had 2yrs without the championship then won it again?

Graham Hill, Michael Schumacher, Alain Prost, Jack Brabham, Fangio, Nelson Piquet... probably a few more. Next question

Ah. Not like MotoGP then.

[skwdenyer]

308mate said:

My point is, Lewis' career works to a plan has been built from the ground-up by Ron Dennis, his dad is savvy allegedly an ungrateful control freak by all accounts and he has had to do alot of recovering from his teams poor decision making in the last 2.1 seasons cope with the fact that his team, despite being only human, have also been wildly successful and have given him one - and nearly two - WDC(s) in his first two years in F1.

EFA

[EDLT]

I'm not sure Brawn will be fast next year, they are a low-ish budget team and if they spend all of this year keeping the car at the front then it could effect next year's car in the same way it did with Renault when Alonso won.

[skwdenyer]

EDLT said:

I'm not sure Brawn will be fast next year, they are a low-ish budget team and if they spend all of this year keeping the car at the front then it could effect next year's car in the same way it did with Renault when Alonso won.

If the budget caps go through, then the budgets will have been effectively equalised. And Brawn / Honda have definitely not been a low-budget team up to now; rather they have only performed like a low-budget team in earlier seasons

[deadslow]

Seeing as how the Hamiltons have undermined and now sacked Ron, will the Alonso year be reconsidered. It was amazing McL threw away both championships by backing LH over FA.

[anonymous-user]

308mate said:

Its not a headline or a rumour, just a hypothesis.

After his team's effort in Oz and all the previous fiascos, plus the apparent animosity between the FIA and Mclaren (which Im starting to believe may be partly justified), how long is Lewis (or his father) going to put up with up Mclaren's incompetence and mismanagement?

How many drivers have had 2yrs without the championship then won it again?

They have a narrow window of opportunity and its starting to look like Hamilton has been successful in spite of the team, just as much as as a result of them.

Well firstly, McLaren are one of the most professional teams in F1. That's why they've been consistently at or near the top of the sport for decades. It looks like they might not be having a great year, but that doesn't mean they will be off the pace next season or even later this season.

As for drivers not winning the championship for a few years, you could start with Schumacher. 94, 95 then nothing until 2000 when he won just another 5 titles.

Lewis has just turned the ripe old age of 24, so his F1 career has barely started.

Don't know why I'm bothering to reply to this junk to be honest!

[308mate]

uktrailmonster said:

308mate said:

Its not a headline or a rumour, just a hypothesis.

After his team's effort in Oz and all the previous fiascos, plus the apparent animosity between the FIA and Mclaren (which Im starting to believe may be partly justified), how long is Lewis (or his father) going to put up with up Mclaren's incompetence and mismanagement?

How many drivers have had 2yrs without the championship then won it again?

They have a narrow window of opportunity and its starting to look like Hamilton has been successful in spite of the team, just as much as as a result of them.

Well firstly, McLaren are one of the most professional teams in F1. That's why they've been consistently at or near the top of the sport for decades. It looks like they might not be having a great year, but that doesn't mean they will be off the pace next season or even later this season.

As for drivers not winning the championship for a few years, you could start with Schumacher. 94, 95 then nothing until 2000 when he won just another 5 titles.

Lewis has just turned the ripe old age of 24, so his F1 career has barely started.

Don't know why I'm bothering to reply to this junk to be honest!

Ok, so the statistics on gaps between championship wins arent what I expected because I havent paid that much attention in the last 10yrs to be honest. But you havent really addressed my other points, other than to call it junk.

Has Lewis been disadvantaged by his team's poor decisions or management and how long do you think he will put up with it whilst potentially getting offers from elsewhere? If I may be allowed a slightly contraversial analogy, I see the relationshship between Hamilton and Dennis as being similar to the old Beckham and Ferguson dynamic. With Dennis stepping back, has Hamilton lost some of his connection with the team?

If you think different, dont call it bks, present your own opinion or educate me where youre qualified to do so. Like I said, its a hypothesis.

[DSM2]

[quote=308mate


My point is, Lewis' career works to a plan, his dad is savvy and he has had to do alot of recovering from his teams poor decision making in the last 2.1 seasons. He's had to start from behind the 8-ball and had his goal-posts moved more in the last 2 seasons than most drivers do in a career. It cant last. I reckon he will be getting offers and I reckon his he will take one of them.
[/quote]

What would that be in English and without the metaphors?

[308mate]

DSM2 said:

308mate said:

My point is, Lewis' career works to a plan, his dad is savvy and he has had to do alot of recovering from his teams poor decision making in the last 2.1 seasons. He's had to start from behind the 8-ball and had his goal-posts moved more in the last 2 seasons than most drivers do in a career. It cant last. I reckon he will be getting offers and I reckon his he will take one of them.

What would that be in English and without the metaphors?

You have a 997 and you need that ^^^ deciphering? Did you inherit your money?

[stephen300o]

I think maybe Hamilton should go elsewhere, maybe Renault. He can do a lot less damage in a Clio.

[anonymous-user]

308mate said:

uktrailmonster said:

308mate said:

Its not a headline or a rumour, just a hypothesis.

After his team's effort in Oz and all the previous fiascos, plus the apparent animosity between the FIA and Mclaren (which Im starting to believe may be partly justified), how long is Lewis (or his father) going to put up with up Mclaren's incompetence and mismanagement?

How many drivers have had 2yrs without the championship then won it again?

They have a narrow window of opportunity and its starting to look like Hamilton has been successful in spite of the team, just as much as as a result of them.

Well firstly, McLaren are one of the most professional teams in F1. That's why they've been consistently at or near the top of the sport for decades. It looks like they might not be having a great year, but that doesn't mean they will be off the pace next season or even later this season.

As for drivers not winning the championship for a few years, you could start with Schumacher. 94, 95 then nothing until 2000 when he won just another 5 titles.

Lewis has just turned the ripe old age of 24, so his F1 career has barely started.

Don't know why I'm bothering to reply to this junk to be honest!

Ok, so the statistics on gaps between championship wins arent what I expected because I havent paid that much attention in the last 10yrs to be honest. But you havent really addressed my other points, other than to call it junk.

Has Lewis been disadvantaged by his team's poor decisions or management and how long do you think he will put up with it whilst potentially getting offers from elsewhere? If I may be allowed a slightly contraversial analogy, I see the relationshship between Hamilton and Dennis as being similar to the old Beckham and Ferguson dynamic. With Dennis stepping back, has Hamilton lost some of his connection with the team?

If you think different, dont call it bks, present your own opinion or educate me where youre qualified to do so. Like I said, its a hypothesis.

If you strip away all the media hype and politics, Hamilton has had the best start to any F1 career in history. That's not a bad effort for an apparently incompetent and mismanaged team. Like all teams, McLaren have had ups and downs, but on the whole they are a very strong team with a lot of depth. Brawn or Williams would both be far greater risk. Brawn as an ongoing team is totally unproven and Williams have been in decline since 2005. Hamilton's best bet IMO is to stay put and see how McLaren develop their car over the next year.

[sirtyro]

Does anybody know if the rules are similar next year to the design of the cars? If they dont change to much and Mclaren can make some good development this year why would he move teams?

[jonnylayze]

RichB said:

308mate said:

How many drivers have had 2yrs without the championship then won it again?

Graham Hill, Michael Schumacher, Alain Prost, Jack Brabham, Fangio, Nelson Piquet... probably a few more. Next question

Niki Lauda - I think that's it

So the answer to the original question would be '7'

and Williams have really been in decline since the end of 1997...

Edited by jonnylayze on Thursday 23 April 07:00

[anonymous-user]

jonnylayze said:

and Williams have really been in decline since the end of 1997...

Fair point, I was cutting them a bit of slack