F1 tyre profiles
Discussion
they mentioned in the commentary, 13inch wheels are the rules and have been for a long time.
although given there is barely any suspension anyway, like a kart, which has none, flex in the tyre wall is essentially the only suspension. so the bigger (the tyre wall) the better. It might be the case if it ain't broke why fix it, some teams have 20-30 years data and experience with 13inch wheels, in relation to suspension and chassis design & development.
although given there is barely any suspension anyway, like a kart, which has none, flex in the tyre wall is essentially the only suspension. so the bigger (the tyre wall) the better. It might be the case if it ain't broke why fix it, some teams have 20-30 years data and experience with 13inch wheels, in relation to suspension and chassis design & development.
Edited by Northern Munkee on Saturday 25th April 16:22
Gazboy said:
elster said:
Why would you change it to low profile tyres?
Less lateral movement? It's interesting that in series that do not specify a wheel size or tyre profile or if there is a limit then the teams usually go for a huge wheel and a very low profile tyre. BTCC wheels were huge with very small tyre profiles before the big shake upor rules & regs.IMHO the tyre sizes are not the problem at the moment - going back to having adjacent compounds for the race is what is needed, as demanded by Alsonso last week. Selecting the optimal tyre and then going hard and soft either side of it is simply stupid.
Spookily a troll on google brought this up on the subject, starting from a different perspective, but the arguments are sound...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Gazboy said:
elster said:
Why would you change it to low profile tyres?
Less lateral movement? It's interesting that in series that do not specify a wheel size or tyre profile or if there is a limit then the teams usually go for a huge wheel and a very low profile tyre. BTCC wheels were huge with very small tyre profiles before the big shake upor rules & regs.they only *need* bigger wheels if they need bigger brakes, which they dont.
As far as I know the wheels are 13" dia becuse Max likes the look of them.
The main advantage if they went for bigger wheels is bigger brakes which would mean more stopping power for less money.
I'm not sure how the relative stiffness of a lower profile tyre would affect the design of the car but I assume it would allow them to make the suspension more compliant.
The only disadvantage I can think of to lower profile tyres is that there would be less scope for handling adjustments via changes in tyre pressure.
Just a guess though.
The main advantage if they went for bigger wheels is bigger brakes which would mean more stopping power for less money.
I'm not sure how the relative stiffness of a lower profile tyre would affect the design of the car but I assume it would allow them to make the suspension more compliant.
The only disadvantage I can think of to lower profile tyres is that there would be less scope for handling adjustments via changes in tyre pressure.
Just a guess though.
Ok thanks guys 
More questions I'm afraid:
- Why are the tyres alot thinner than they used to be?
- Why are the backs and the fronts the same diameter (tyre heights) these days?
I'm guessing the answer for both is going to be rules!
Are they at a disadvantage not being able to choose different diameters for front and back, if so why?
More questions I'm afraid:
- Why are the tyres alot thinner than they used to be?
- Why are the backs and the fronts the same diameter (tyre heights) these days?
I'm guessing the answer for both is going to be rules!
Are they at a disadvantage not being able to choose different diameters for front and back, if so why?
here's a place to start.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_tyres
The main answer is rules, no tyre manufacturer is going to supply different diameter tyres for each team, can you imagine the extra production costs involved in that, and cries of favouritism, especially in what is a one make tyre formula, would rather defeat the cost saving, safety (performance control).
That said special tyres have been produced in the past, the obvious one was the front tyres for the 6 wheeled Tyrrell, the designer (gardner? Poslthewaite?) reasoned a smaller front profile aerodynamically, so less drag, with a greater contact patch from 4 tyres at the front for grip. This was eventually done away with by a rule change I think (each car must 4 wheels and no more).
The FIA are bringing in rules to make the front wheels narrower from next year, again doubtless a performance control to reduce laptimes/cornering speeds, now that we're back on slicks, as opposed to grooves, in the same way they narrowed the front track, and then the tyre war between Michellin and Bridgestone saw the front tyres get wider. Rear wheel tyres used to be much wider early 70's-80's because the rules allowed and the strength/sophistication of tyre construction has improved performance. Its also worth pointing out that the change from cross ply to radial construction has had a significant effect on the performance and a reduction in the sideways action between the 60's and 80's.
If they all have the same tyres then no one is at an advantage or disadvantage.
Also one can't separate aerodynamics from tyres. In so much as F1 cars from ground effect onwards have gained its grip from a carefule balance between aero and tyres, and so much more is known about aero, plus the aero elements are much much bigger and efficient that the 70's, simplistically put, squashing, tyres into the track, so the contact patch is bigger, generating more grip, than the fat tyres of the 70's but also necessitating stronger sidewall construction.
Nothing advances on a F1 car in isolation of other parts of the car.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_tyres
The main answer is rules, no tyre manufacturer is going to supply different diameter tyres for each team, can you imagine the extra production costs involved in that, and cries of favouritism, especially in what is a one make tyre formula, would rather defeat the cost saving, safety (performance control).
That said special tyres have been produced in the past, the obvious one was the front tyres for the 6 wheeled Tyrrell, the designer (gardner? Poslthewaite?) reasoned a smaller front profile aerodynamically, so less drag, with a greater contact patch from 4 tyres at the front for grip. This was eventually done away with by a rule change I think (each car must 4 wheels and no more).
The FIA are bringing in rules to make the front wheels narrower from next year, again doubtless a performance control to reduce laptimes/cornering speeds, now that we're back on slicks, as opposed to grooves, in the same way they narrowed the front track, and then the tyre war between Michellin and Bridgestone saw the front tyres get wider. Rear wheel tyres used to be much wider early 70's-80's because the rules allowed and the strength/sophistication of tyre construction has improved performance. Its also worth pointing out that the change from cross ply to radial construction has had a significant effect on the performance and a reduction in the sideways action between the 60's and 80's.
If they all have the same tyres then no one is at an advantage or disadvantage.
Also one can't separate aerodynamics from tyres. In so much as F1 cars from ground effect onwards have gained its grip from a carefule balance between aero and tyres, and so much more is known about aero, plus the aero elements are much much bigger and efficient that the 70's, simplistically put, squashing, tyres into the track, so the contact patch is bigger, generating more grip, than the fat tyres of the 70's but also necessitating stronger sidewall construction.
Nothing advances on a F1 car in isolation of other parts of the car.
Edited by Northern Munkee on Wednesday 29th April 12:04
Rules, and aesthetics. We expect F1 cars to ride on big rubber, they would look stupid on big alloys and low profile wheels.
The tyre is the first point of the suspension and is VERY hard to predict how it will react and there for control. If the designers had their way, they would use as low profile as possible and build a more controlled flex into the wishbones.
The tyre is the first point of the suspension and is VERY hard to predict how it will react and there for control. If the designers had their way, they would use as low profile as possible and build a more controlled flex into the wishbones.
skinny said:
rev-erend said:
My guess is Weight.
Rubber is always lighter than alloy ..
in F1 the wheel weighs a small fraction of the tyre - i'd say from picking them up and estimating, at least 10 times less.Rubber is always lighter than alloy ..
Edited by skinny on Wednesday 29th April 13:00
My 16" wheels are 5kgs, the 16" tyres around them are about 8kgs.
Northern Munkee said:
they mentioned in the commentary, 13inch wheels are the rules and have been for a long time.
although given there is barely any suspension anyway, like a kart, which has none, flex in the tyre wall is essentially the only suspension. so the bigger (the tyre wall) the better. It might be the case if it ain't broke why fix it, some teams have 20-30 years data and experience with 13inch wheels, in relation to suspension and chassis design & development.
Modern F1 cars have a lot of suspension movement and a lot of tyre flex, thats how they ride the kerbs so well. Watch one from the back into a corner like Beckets, they roll a lot. Tyres are relatively undamped compared to the other movement in the suspension, so it's not a good thing to have large sidewalls on a smooth surface like a racetrack. The reason they are the way they are is down to the regulations, if it was a free for all they would be very different.although given there is barely any suspension anyway, like a kart, which has none, flex in the tyre wall is essentially the only suspension. so the bigger (the tyre wall) the better. It might be the case if it ain't broke why fix it, some teams have 20-30 years data and experience with 13inch wheels, in relation to suspension and chassis design & development.
Edited by Northern Munkee on Saturday 25th April 16:22
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