Changing Face of F1?
Discussion
With Mercedes this morning announcing £1.1 billion in losses for the first quarter (from a £1 billion profit this time last year) as well as the noise about them looking very closely at whatever punishment McLaren get, it would appear that their furture in the sport is possibly now uncertain.
Add to that the questions over Toyota and Renault (have they already decided to leave?) along with Ferrari rattling the cage, the grid could look very different in the coming years.
With manufacturers being forced to slash costs left right and centre, who is going to remain? If they pull out, where will the independant teams source their engines?
Add to that the questions over Toyota and Renault (have they already decided to leave?) along with Ferrari rattling the cage, the grid could look very different in the coming years.
With manufacturers being forced to slash costs left right and centre, who is going to remain? If they pull out, where will the independant teams source their engines?
If they go to a spec engine, the FIA has already indicated that Cosworth will be the supplier.
The latest speculation is that the FIA will impose a two-tier system, in which an entrant could elect to operate with either a high cost cap or none at all, but with even stricter technical limitations than now, or a low cost cap, but with fewer technical limitations than now.
The latest speculation is that the FIA will impose a two-tier system, in which an entrant could elect to operate with either a high cost cap or none at all, but with even stricter technical limitations than now, or a low cost cap, but with fewer technical limitations than now.
Fire99 said:
Interesting. So if they went to spec engines etc, how would this keep F1 significantly different from the likes of GP2 or A1GP?
Good question!Well, they'd still call it "Formula One", which would enable the Commercial Rights Holder and the FIA to continue to feed parasitically off F1's rich history.
Apart from that, however...
flemke said:
Fire99 said:
Interesting. So if they went to spec engines etc, how would this keep F1 significantly different from the likes of GP2 or A1GP?
Good question!Well, they'd still call it "Formula One", which would enable the Commercial Rights Holder and the FIA to continue to feed parasitically off F1's rich history.
Apart from that, however...
You never fail to grind your axe, which is somewhat tedious.
Bedazzled said:
Well personally I think the budget cap is a good idea especially if they can then relax the rules a bit, it's much better to see which teams can innovate rather than just throwing money at the problem. It's become farcical to see how much they spend on stuff like £50K steering wheels and £1K wheel nuts. F1 cars must be faster than other racing formats but other than that who cares what engines they use as long as the racing is close and exciting. I'd also ditch KERS and refueling and limit the number of people who can work on the cars during pitstops to make them do their overtaking on the track. It's been great to see some different teams and drivers at the front this season.
Ahh why not call it the Indycar / F1 / F3 Lights championships.F1 is all about huge technical advances, ie fan cars, six wheelers, side skirts, diffusers, clutchless transmission etc. IT IS NOT SAME CLASS RACING.
Also teh so called recession will be over within 15-20 months and then things will again improve as will automotive profits.
M-B made massive profits for six or seven years as did Toyota etc, so don't worry if they don't make any for 3 or 4 qtrs.
Duke of Rothesay said:
flemke said:
Fire99 said:
Interesting. So if they went to spec engines etc, how would this keep F1 significantly different from the likes of GP2 or A1GP?
Good question!Well, they'd still call it "Formula One", which would enable the Commercial Rights Holder and the FIA to continue to feed parasitically off F1's rich history.
Apart from that, however...
You never fail to grind your axe, which is somewhat tedious.
Duke of Rothesay said:
flemke said:
Fire99 said:
Interesting. So if they went to spec engines etc, how would this keep F1 significantly different from the likes of GP2 or A1GP?
Good question!Well, they'd still call it "Formula One", which would enable the Commercial Rights Holder and the FIA to continue to feed parasitically off F1's rich history.
Apart from that, however...
You never fail to grind your axe, which is somewhat tedious.
You aren't serious, man. Are you Richard Woods, or are you one of Bernie's flunkies?
Let's see:
Ferrari
Ascari
Fangio
Moss
Chapman
Hill, Hill and Hill
Brabham
Gurney
Clark
McLaren
Stewart
Peterson
Andretti
Lauda
Williams
Villeneuve
Prost
Senna
Mansell
Schumacher
Hakkinen
Alonso
and one could cite at least a hundred more names.
If you genuinely believe that Bernie Ecclestone and a collection of jumped-up bureaucrats contributed more to Formula One than the great men listed above contributed to it, then I'm going to have to copy your words and keep them, for they are truly a howler for the ages.
flemke said:
Duke of Rothesay said:
flemke said:
Fire99 said:
Interesting. So if they went to spec engines etc, how would this keep F1 significantly different from the likes of GP2 or A1GP?
Good question!Well, they'd still call it "Formula One", which would enable the Commercial Rights Holder and the FIA to continue to feed parasitically off F1's rich history.
Apart from that, however...
You never fail to grind your axe, which is somewhat tedious.
You aren't serious, man. Are you Richard Woods, or are you one of Bernie's flunkies?
Let's see:
Ferrari
Ascari
Fangio
Moss
Chapman
Hill, Hill and Hill
Brabham
Gurney
Clark
McLaren
Stewart
Peterson
Andretti
Lauda
Williams
Villeneuve
Prost
Senna
Mansell
Schumacher
Hakkinen
Alonso
and one could cite at least a hundred more names.
If you genuinely believe that Bernie Ecclestone and a collection of jumped-up bureaucrats contributed more to Formula One than the great men listed above contributed to it, then I'm going to have to copy your words and keep them, for they are truly a howler for the ages.
flemke said:
If you genuinely believe that Bernie Ecclestone and a collection of jumped-up bureaucrats contributed more to Formula One than the great men listed above contributed to it, then I'm going to have to copy your words and keep them, for they are truly a howler for the ages.
Factually accurate and witheringly honest in the same breath. If I may say so, well said.
Duke of Rothesay said:
flemke said:
Duke of Rothesay said:
flemke said:
Fire99 said:
Interesting. So if they went to spec engines etc, how would this keep F1 significantly different from the likes of GP2 or A1GP?
Good question!Well, they'd still call it "Formula One", which would enable the Commercial Rights Holder and the FIA to continue to feed parasitically off F1's rich history.
Apart from that, however...
You never fail to grind your axe, which is somewhat tedious.
You aren't serious, man. Are you Richard Woods, or are you one of Bernie's flunkies?
Let's see:
Ferrari
Ascari
Fangio
Moss
Chapman
Hill, Hill and Hill
Brabham
Gurney
Clark
McLaren
Stewart
Peterson
Andretti
Lauda
Williams
Villeneuve
Prost
Senna
Mansell
Schumacher
Hakkinen
Alonso
and one could cite at least a hundred more names.
If you genuinely believe that Bernie Ecclestone and a collection of jumped-up bureaucrats contributed more to Formula One than the great men listed above contributed to it, then I'm going to have to copy your words and keep them, for they are truly a howler for the ages.
to be fair to Bernie, he has shaped F1 in to what it is today, ignoring if you consider that a good thing or not...
Spankie on the other hand has done (IMHO) nothing good for the sport, he seems more interested in his own personal agenda (whatever that actually is?)
I do think it's time Bernie retired, the real issue though is if he did, who would do the job?
Hate him as much as you want, but 90%+ of what he does is now essential for F1 to actually run...
Spankie on the other hand has done (IMHO) nothing good for the sport, he seems more interested in his own personal agenda (whatever that actually is?)
I do think it's time Bernie retired, the real issue though is if he did, who would do the job?
Hate him as much as you want, but 90%+ of what he does is now essential for F1 to actually run...
Scuffers said:
to be fair to Bernie, he has shaped F1 in to what it is today, ignoring if you consider that a good thing or not...
Spankie on the other hand has done (IMHO) nothing good for the sport, he seems more interested in his own personal agenda (whatever that actually is?)
I do think it's time Bernie retired, the real issue though is if he did, who would do the job?
Hate him as much as you want, but 90%+ of what he does is now essential for F1 to actually run...
I don't seem to remember spankie being nearly as vocal a few years ago - what did he do back then, before he decided to go on a crusade to destroy f1?Spankie on the other hand has done (IMHO) nothing good for the sport, he seems more interested in his own personal agenda (whatever that actually is?)
I do think it's time Bernie retired, the real issue though is if he did, who would do the job?
Hate him as much as you want, but 90%+ of what he does is now essential for F1 to actually run...
Duke of Rothesay said:
flemke said:
Fire99 said:
Interesting. So if they went to spec engines etc, how would this keep F1 significantly different from the likes of GP2 or A1GP?
Good question!Well, they'd still call it "Formula One", which would enable the Commercial Rights Holder and the FIA to continue to feed parasitically off F1's rich history.
Apart from that, however...
Look, i really don't want to get personal or anything, but i really am coming very close to saying "will you f
k off with your lack of knowledge!" That statement is so wrong it is almost offensive.For your information, F1 survived in rude health for a long time before Bernie, and i'm saying that as something of a fan of Bernie.
In answer to the OP, i'd say don't worry. Ferrari won't leave F1, and F1 survived just fine for a long time before the manufacturers got involved. The manufacturers come, and they go. For my money, the only manufacturers who have contributed greatly in recent times is merc and renault. The others have added little so far. And before Merc and Renault there was Ford of course.
The TV audiences may wane of course, but the true fans of the sport will always need their fix.
Ferrari will never leave F1. The whole reason they exist is to race in F1; Enzo only started building road cars to fund the race team.
McLaren, the F1 road car and the future projects aside, again are really only in existance to try and win in F1; unlike the old days when they were at Le Mans, CanAm etc, but now all their nous is concentrated on F1. I can't see either team leaving F1, although McLaren might lose Mercedes as an engine supplier, in which case I don't know what they would do.
And just a thought, with Mercedes and BMW competing in F1, how long before Audi want a slice of the pie?
McLaren, the F1 road car and the future projects aside, again are really only in existance to try and win in F1; unlike the old days when they were at Le Mans, CanAm etc, but now all their nous is concentrated on F1. I can't see either team leaving F1, although McLaren might lose Mercedes as an engine supplier, in which case I don't know what they would do.
And just a thought, with Mercedes and BMW competing in F1, how long before Audi want a slice of the pie?
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