Seven "serious" new teams want into F1
Discussion
According to Moseley in this interview: http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/
“We’ve got seven quite serious outfits wanting an entry and two less serious ones, its going to be very hard selecting three.”
So we are guaranteed 26 car grids next year.
Interestingly there will not be pre-qualifying. The FIA will choose 3 teams for the season out of the applicants. More if any of the existing teams pull out.
So more power to Max.
“We’ve got seven quite serious outfits wanting an entry and two less serious ones, its going to be very hard selecting three.”
So we are guaranteed 26 car grids next year.
Interestingly there will not be pre-qualifying. The FIA will choose 3 teams for the season out of the applicants. More if any of the existing teams pull out.
So more power to Max.
I'd hazard a guess, that The max number is limited not by garages directly, but probably by the safety licence for the Monaco GP, at 26. 26 on the grid, unless f1 wants to knock out cars from the race with a pre qualifying. Elsewhere most other circuits cater for sportscars and grids of 40+ cars, although f1 teams seem to occupy at least 3 garages for 2 cars, so it might be a factor.
Edited by Northern Munkee on Monday 4th May 10:25
Northern Munkee said:
I'd hazard a guess, that The max number is limited not by garages directly, but probably by the safety licence for the Monaco GP, at 26. 26 on the grid, unless f1 wants to knock out cars from the race with a pre qualifying. Elsewhere most other circuits cater for sportscars and grids of 40+ cars, although f1 teams seem to occupy at least 3 garages for 2 cars, so it might be a factor.
I think pre-qualifying will be very bad for the teams, even if it was for just one race.Edited by Northern Munkee on Monday 4th May 10:25
If they can get three more serious teams to join up then it will vindicate alot of moselys changes to F1, however unpopular they are with some of the teams.
26 cars on the grid can only be good for F1
Derek Smith said:
And I believe Mossy when he says this. Absolutely. 100%. I don't think it is a stretch of the truth in any way. I also feel that these teams will bring engineering expertise to the sport and raise standards. Now must go off and search for the tooth fairy.
You think Prodrive/Aston Martin and Lola won't bring engineering expertise to the sport and raise standards?Holst said:
Northern Munkee said:
I'd hazard a guess, that The max number is limited not by garages directly, but probably by the safety licence for the Monaco GP, at 26. 26 on the grid, unless f1 wants to knock out cars from the race with a pre qualifying. Elsewhere most other circuits cater for sportscars and grids of 40+ cars, although f1 teams seem to occupy at least 3 garages for 2 cars, so it might be a factor.
I think pre-qualifying will be very bad for the teams, even if it was for just one race.Edited by Northern Munkee on Monday 4th May 10:25
If they can get three more serious teams to join up then it will vindicate alot of moselys changes to F1, however unpopular they are with some of the teams.
26 cars on the grid can only be good for F1
There is also value in limiting the 'franchises', this essentially what they do with GP2, and doing it in F1, gives each franchise a much greater value (than anything in GP2), to anyone who wants to buy into the club later, as an asset, so long as the cost of being in F1 is not prohibitive, hence the cap and the hats being juggled above, if not thrown in the ring. 13 team limit, would give the (new) teams something to both sell on, and more importantly an asset of value to borrow against in raising finance.
Duke of Rothesay said:
Derek Smith said:
And I believe Mossy when he says this. Absolutely. 100%. I don't think it is a stretch of the truth in any way. I also feel that these teams will bring engineering expertise to the sport and raise standards. Now must go off and search for the tooth fairy.
You think Prodrive/Aston Martin and Lola won't bring engineering expertise to the sport and raise standards?Can anybody name these things that come from the US?
Duke of Rothesay said:
Derek Smith said:
And I believe Mossy when he says this. Absolutely. 100%. I don't think it is a stretch of the truth in any way. I also feel that these teams will bring engineering expertise to the sport and raise standards. Now must go off and search for the tooth fairy.
You think Prodrive/Aston Martin and Lola won't bring engineering expertise to the sport and raise standards?Duke of Rothesay said:
Derek Smith said:
And I believe Mossy when he says this. Absolutely. 100%. I don't think it is a stretch of the truth in any way. I also feel that these teams will bring engineering expertise to the sport and raise standards. Now must go off and search for the tooth fairy.
You think Prodrive/Aston Martin and Lola won't bring engineering expertise to the sport and raise standards?The only reason for the £40M budget cap is to ensure stadards of the great teams are lowered to a level where the pretenders have some hope of competeing.
Munter said:
Duke of Rothesay said:
Derek Smith said:
And I believe Mossy when he says this. Absolutely. 100%. I don't think it is a stretch of the truth in any way. I also feel that these teams will bring engineering expertise to the sport and raise standards. Now must go off and search for the tooth fairy.
You think Prodrive/Aston Martin and Lola won't bring engineering expertise to the sport and raise standards?Can anybody name these things that come from the US?
Derek Smith said:
Lola raise standards? Good one.
Why does a new team have to raise standards?Is that the reason behind wanting more teams in F1, to raise standards?
I thought it was to ensure that F1 could continue to field enough cars to make a reasonable grid, given the likely crippling lack of sponsors when current agreements reach their ends.
Get Karter said:
Derek Smith said:
Lola raise standards? Good one.
Why does a new team have to raise standards?Is that the reason behind wanting more teams in F1, to raise standards?
I thought it was to ensure that F1 could continue to field enough cars to make a reasonable grid, given the likely crippling lack of sponsors when current agreements reach their ends.
I'm not sure that the sponsors are big in Mosley's mind. Indeed, it would appear that certain of his actions - and I say certain because I don't know them all - have put the sponsors off to a great extent.
But following the logic of the sponsors refusing to sign up again, surely that would reduce budgets without any artificial and devisive rules dumped on the teams by the regulator? Free market and that sort of thing is my view. It's worked in the past.
Further, the regulator didn't seem particularly inclined to police such things as traction control and fuel rig fiddling when it didn't suit the great plan so I'd suggest a budget cap is not the way to do.
Derek Smith said:
But following the logic of the sponsors refusing to sign up again, surely that would reduce budgets without any artificial and devisive rules dumped on the teams by the regulator? Free market and that sort of thing is my view. It's worked in the past.
Was thinking the same thing this morning. Over time, these things will regulate themselves! AlpineWhite said:
Derek Smith said:
But following the logic of the sponsors refusing to sign up again, surely that would reduce budgets without any artificial and devisive rules dumped on the teams by the regulator? Free market and that sort of thing is my view. It's worked in the past.
Was thinking the same thing this morning. Over time, these things will regulate themselves! Even before the current economic crisis, the cost for a new entrant into F1 had become prohibitive.
The financial crisis is now threatening all but two or three of the current teams' future participation.
In financial markets, companies can go bust, but the market survives....there are hundreds of thousands of companies.
If 5 of the current F1 teams went bust/pulled out, F1 would not survive.
Thus the regulator had to do something, quickly, to save the future of the sport. They have proposed a budget cap.
This appears to have attracted interest from enough teams to keep F1 going in the near term.
Get Karter said:
It's too small a system to survive market forces sorting it out.
Even before the current economic crisis, the cost for a new entrant into F1 had become prohibitive.
The financial crisis is now threatening all but two or three of the current teams' future participation.
In financial markets, companies can go bust, but the market survives....there are hundreds of thousands of companies.
If 5 of the current F1 teams went bust/pulled out, F1 would not survive.
Thus the regulator had to do something, quickly, to save the future of the sport. They have proposed a budget cap.
This appears to have attracted interest from enough teams to keep F1 going in the near term.
There are other, simpler methods that are easier to police that would cut costs. Inded the regulator has increased costs dramatically over the recent past. Almost, one might think, as a deliberate policy.Even before the current economic crisis, the cost for a new entrant into F1 had become prohibitive.
The financial crisis is now threatening all but two or three of the current teams' future participation.
In financial markets, companies can go bust, but the market survives....there are hundreds of thousands of companies.
If 5 of the current F1 teams went bust/pulled out, F1 would not survive.
Thus the regulator had to do something, quickly, to save the future of the sport. They have proposed a budget cap.
This appears to have attracted interest from enough teams to keep F1 going in the near term.
The problem is that there is no fall-back in place, an indictment of the current FiA management. Almost, one might think, as a deeliberate policy. In the past there's always been F2. This has an additional effect over and above providing a short term stop gap Formula 1: there is progression for teams, a way to make their way up the ladder to F1.
Had there been a lower formula then there would have been all sorts of ways it could have been used to bolster F1. Someone on another thread suggsted that F1 should take a leaf out of the football association. It is not what I would call an example of excellent management but I have to say that it is somewhat better than the FiA. If you wish to get into the premier division then it is a simple method of buying a team in a division where costs are affordable to you then improving it, going up via the various divisions, getting into the playoffs or going up as of right, so that when the premiere leage welcomes you, you have all the organisation and finance you need.
The FiA's way would appear to be to get Arsenal to play in some muddy field to allow Achrington (sp?) Stanley a chance of beating them. Not my idea of the pinnacle of the sport.
But this sudden and rather dramatic change in the regs is not the way. It puts the costs up for those teams that are already on the grid, and quite quite substantially. Further, the investment that they made in such things as wind tunnels is now of little or no use.
If this is indeed an emergency situation then long term planning is of little use. No one knows how long this current crisis will last so changes should be minor and aimed at reducing costs for all concerned. It is of no use to suggest that engines should last 8 races or so because that requires substantial engineering changes. Why not, for instance, limit revs?
You mention the figure of five or so teams pulling out. I would assume you mean the five teams the changes hit hardest. If so then they are just as likely to pull out now.
The way forward would be simply to reduce costs across the board so that all teams could, if they wished, continue if their major sponsors or suppliers will not stay with them. It is not to change F1 fundamentally. I have many ideas on how to cut costs but most of them depend on those who are milking F1 currently actually doing something for the money they are receiving. So limited chances there.
The current financial situation has highlighted the poor and unprofessional, especially in comparison to some of the teams, way the FiA (Mossy) has organised that bit of motor racing it is responsible for. If we had had a number of independant teams fighting it out in a proper F2 then it would be easy to keep F1 going without most of the spectators realising anything had changed.
Going back to football: most teams that are promoted into the premiership are favourite for the topple back. This is how it should be. Excellence at a sport should be rewarded. If you want to share in the spoils, or at least those that are reluctantly placed on the table, then you've got to work at it and prove how good you are.
McLaren and Ferrari are not in F1 by right. They are there because they are the best. Changing the rules to allow Lola to compete with them really does stick in the throat.
Get Karter said:
Thus the regulator had to do something, quickly, to save the future of the sport. They have proposed a budget cap.
This appears to have attracted interest from enough teams to keep F1 going in the near term.
With respect, I'd disagree that "the regulator had to do something, quickly, to save the future of the sport".This appears to have attracted interest from enough teams to keep F1 going in the near term.
I myself don't object to a cost cap - the teams themselves proposed one only a couple of months ago. This latest diktat from the FIA wasn't issued in order to save the sport, it was issued in order for the FIA to assert its own authority over the sport. FOTA have generated a lot of momentum, by showing themselves capable of both forward thinking and unity, and of course the regulator (that is, this particular regulator) wasn't going to tolerate letting the hired help set the agenda.
Of the three groups of signatories to the Concorde Agreement, the FIA has, by far, the least degree of financial self-interest at stake. The notion that Bernie, CVC, Flavio, Dennis, di Montezemolo, Williams, Mateschitz, Mallya and others are just babes in the woods who aren't capable of looking after themselves financially, which has been one of Mosley's hobby horses for some time, is fanciful, to say the least. They're fully capable of looking after themselves, provided that that is allowed. It's been made far more difficult by a constantly-changing, needlessly-changing, formula. The sale of the commercial rights to an undercapitalised group of speculators who are lumbered with huge debt obligations, which sale was formally approved by the regulator, didn't help.
As part of the sanctions that the EU Competition Commissioner imposed on the FIA several years ago, the regulator was barred from any involvement in the commercial decision-making of Formula One. I wouldn't know whether that bar extends to influence upon the entrants' budgets, but perhaps it should do.
mchammer89 said:
Munter said:
Duke of Rothesay said:
Derek Smith said:
And I believe Mossy when he says this. Absolutely. 100%. I don't think it is a stretch of the truth in any way. I also feel that these teams will bring engineering expertise to the sport and raise standards. Now must go off and search for the tooth fairy.
You think Prodrive/Aston Martin and Lola won't bring engineering expertise to the sport and raise standards?Can anybody name these things that come from the US?
stifler said:
mchammer89 said:
Munter said:
Duke of Rothesay said:
Derek Smith said:
And I believe Mossy when he says this. Absolutely. 100%. I don't think it is a stretch of the truth in any way. I also feel that these teams will bring engineering expertise to the sport and raise standards. Now must go off and search for the tooth fairy.
You think Prodrive/Aston Martin and Lola won't bring engineering expertise to the sport and raise standards?Can anybody name these things that come from the US?
Derek Smith said:
You mention the figure of five or so teams pulling out. I would assume you mean the five teams the changes hit hardest. If so then they are just as likely to pull out now.
I would disagree. I certainly think Williams and Renault are living off sponsorship this season that will disappear next, and wil be difficult to replace. Forums | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff