27 years since 27.
Discussion
While last Friday saw us pass 15 years without Senna, this Friday will see us reach 27 years of life without Gilles Villeneuve - ironically the man who made himself synonymous with the #27 car. I had no idea both drivers, legendary in their own right, passed within a mere week of each other (albeit 12 years apart).
However, it got me thinking about how Gilles' career would have panned out had he not died, and how much differently our perception of him would have been. In '79 he frequently out-paced Sheckter, but was plagued with a weak Ferrari for the next two years (somehow racking up two wins). But in '82, as the teams first choice driver and with a stronger car beneath him, how far would he have gotten? If Pironi, who had been blitzed by Villeneuve in the same car a year earlier, could get within five points of the title, surely Gilles would have taken it in his stride?
I understand this is all extremely hypothetical, and every comment posted will be opinion based, but it's an opinion worth hearing all the same. While Gilles is often heralded alongside the likes of Moss and Peterson as the greatest driver never to hold the title of World Champion, was it a question of 'when' rather than 'if' he did it?
However, it got me thinking about how Gilles' career would have panned out had he not died, and how much differently our perception of him would have been. In '79 he frequently out-paced Sheckter, but was plagued with a weak Ferrari for the next two years (somehow racking up two wins). But in '82, as the teams first choice driver and with a stronger car beneath him, how far would he have gotten? If Pironi, who had been blitzed by Villeneuve in the same car a year earlier, could get within five points of the title, surely Gilles would have taken it in his stride?
I understand this is all extremely hypothetical, and every comment posted will be opinion based, but it's an opinion worth hearing all the same. While Gilles is often heralded alongside the likes of Moss and Peterson as the greatest driver never to hold the title of World Champion, was it a question of 'when' rather than 'if' he did it?
Gilles was always one of the most tragic of stories about a driver who was never a WDC. He could'be been in '79 except for following and accepting team orders.
'82 he was still much the better qualifier and racer compared to Pironi in the first 4 races. Given how Tambay did as his replacement in terms of results and the cars reliability, you can assume he would've walked tio the WDC.
Pironi was also arguably a considerably faster/better driver than Tambay.
'83 Arnoux was capably faster than Tambay but much more inconsistent race to race with his 'mental' issues. Given they racked up a few wins each, you'd have to say this year would also have been Gilles'.
If he'd have stayed at Ferrari, maybe the '84 Ferrari wouldn't have been quite good enough... or maybe Gilles would've got the best out of it, and with WDC under his belt confidence, may have had enough to win there too?
If he still had stayed at Ferrari in '85, well this car was good to start with but too slow and unreliabile later on in the season. If he'd have switched teams by then or after this, it becomes all too subjective guesswork. And lets not forget, he was 32 when he died, so how many more good seasons would he have had left in him?
'82 he was still much the better qualifier and racer compared to Pironi in the first 4 races. Given how Tambay did as his replacement in terms of results and the cars reliability, you can assume he would've walked tio the WDC.
Pironi was also arguably a considerably faster/better driver than Tambay.
'83 Arnoux was capably faster than Tambay but much more inconsistent race to race with his 'mental' issues. Given they racked up a few wins each, you'd have to say this year would also have been Gilles'.
If he'd have stayed at Ferrari, maybe the '84 Ferrari wouldn't have been quite good enough... or maybe Gilles would've got the best out of it, and with WDC under his belt confidence, may have had enough to win there too?
If he still had stayed at Ferrari in '85, well this car was good to start with but too slow and unreliabile later on in the season. If he'd have switched teams by then or after this, it becomes all too subjective guesswork. And lets not forget, he was 32 when he died, so how many more good seasons would he have had left in him?
mattikake said:
Gilles was always one of the most tragic of stories about a driver who was never a WDC. He could'be been in '79 except for following and accepting team orders.
'82 he was still much the better qualifier and racer compared to Pironi in the first 4 races. Given how Tambay did as his replacement in terms of results and the cars reliability, you can assume he would've walked tio the WDC.
Pironi was also arguably a considerably faster/better driver than Tambay.
'83 Arnoux was capably faster than Tambay but much more inconsistent race to race with his 'mental' issues. Given they racked up a few wins each, you'd have to say this year would also have been Gilles'.
If he'd have stayed at Ferrari, maybe the '84 Ferrari wouldn't have been quite good enough... or maybe Gilles would've got the best out of it, and with WDC under his belt confidence, may have had enough to win there too?
If he still had stayed at Ferrari in '85, well this car was good to start with but too slow and unreliabile later on in the season. If he'd have switched teams by then or after this, it becomes all too subjective guesswork. And lets not forget, he was 32 when he died, so how many more good seasons would he have had left in him?
Fair and honest appraisal... well said that man! '82 he was still much the better qualifier and racer compared to Pironi in the first 4 races. Given how Tambay did as his replacement in terms of results and the cars reliability, you can assume he would've walked tio the WDC.
Pironi was also arguably a considerably faster/better driver than Tambay.
'83 Arnoux was capably faster than Tambay but much more inconsistent race to race with his 'mental' issues. Given they racked up a few wins each, you'd have to say this year would also have been Gilles'.
If he'd have stayed at Ferrari, maybe the '84 Ferrari wouldn't have been quite good enough... or maybe Gilles would've got the best out of it, and with WDC under his belt confidence, may have had enough to win there too?
If he still had stayed at Ferrari in '85, well this car was good to start with but too slow and unreliabile later on in the season. If he'd have switched teams by then or after this, it becomes all too subjective guesswork. And lets not forget, he was 32 when he died, so how many more good seasons would he have had left in him?
mattikake said:
Gilles was always one of the most tragic of stories about a driver who was never a WDC. He could'be been in '79 except for following and accepting team orders.
'82 he was still much the better qualifier and racer compared to Pironi in the first 4 races. Given how Tambay did as his replacement in terms of results and the cars reliability, you can assume he would've walked tio the WDC.
Pironi was also arguably a considerably faster/better driver than Tambay.
'83 Arnoux was capably faster than Tambay but much more inconsistent race to race with his 'mental' issues. Given they racked up a few wins each, you'd have to say this year would also have been Gilles'.
If he'd have stayed at Ferrari, maybe the '84 Ferrari wouldn't have been quite good enough... or maybe Gilles would've got the best out of it, and with WDC under his belt confidence, may have had enough to win there too?
If he still had stayed at Ferrari in '85, well this car was good to start with but too slow and unreliabile later on in the season. If he'd have switched teams by then or after this, it becomes all too subjective guesswork. And lets not forget, he was 32 when he died, so how many more good seasons would he have had left in him?
Why do you have such a problem with Arnoux?'82 he was still much the better qualifier and racer compared to Pironi in the first 4 races. Given how Tambay did as his replacement in terms of results and the cars reliability, you can assume he would've walked tio the WDC.
Pironi was also arguably a considerably faster/better driver than Tambay.
'83 Arnoux was capably faster than Tambay but much more inconsistent race to race with his 'mental' issues. Given they racked up a few wins each, you'd have to say this year would also have been Gilles'.
If he'd have stayed at Ferrari, maybe the '84 Ferrari wouldn't have been quite good enough... or maybe Gilles would've got the best out of it, and with WDC under his belt confidence, may have had enough to win there too?
If he still had stayed at Ferrari in '85, well this car was good to start with but too slow and unreliabile later on in the season. If he'd have switched teams by then or after this, it becomes all too subjective guesswork. And lets not forget, he was 32 when he died, so how many more good seasons would he have had left in him?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2009/05/cl...
Here's a link to bbc sport where you can watch his 1981 Spanish GP victory - also look out for the link to a tribute written on the 25th anniversary of his death.
Here's a link to bbc sport where you can watch his 1981 Spanish GP victory - also look out for the link to a tribute written on the 25th anniversary of his death.
The diminutive canadian who drove blindingly quickly but played with an absolutely straight bat.
My childhood hero, simple as that really.
Cried when i saw the footage of his accident on the news and still recall it all vividly even now.
27 years on and i still don't know what he sounded like in old interviews etc. TBH it's an old question i don't intend pursuing an answer for either.
My childhood hero, simple as that really.
Cried when i saw the footage of his accident on the news and still recall it all vividly even now.
27 years on and i still don't know what he sounded like in old interviews etc. TBH it's an old question i don't intend pursuing an answer for either.
mattikake said:
Gilles was always one of the most tragic of stories about a driver who was never a WDC. He could'be been in '79 except for following and accepting team orders.
'82 he was still much the better qualifier and racer compared to Pironi in the first 4 races. Given how Tambay did as his replacement in terms of results and the cars reliability, you can assume he would've walked tio the WDC.
Pironi was also arguably a considerably faster/better driver than Tambay.
'83 Arnoux was capably faster than Tambay but much more inconsistent race to race with his 'mental' issues. Given they racked up a few wins each, you'd have to say this year would also have been Gilles'.
If he'd have stayed at Ferrari, maybe the '84 Ferrari wouldn't have been quite good enough... or maybe Gilles would've got the best out of it, and with WDC under his belt confidence, may have had enough to win there too?
If he still had stayed at Ferrari in '85, well this car was good to start with but too slow and unreliabile later on in the season. If he'd have switched teams by then or after this, it becomes all too subjective guesswork. And lets not forget, he was 32 when he died, so how many more good seasons would he have had left in him?
>>'83 Arnoux was capably faster than Tambay but much more inconsistent race to race '82 he was still much the better qualifier and racer compared to Pironi in the first 4 races. Given how Tambay did as his replacement in terms of results and the cars reliability, you can assume he would've walked tio the WDC.
Pironi was also arguably a considerably faster/better driver than Tambay.
'83 Arnoux was capably faster than Tambay but much more inconsistent race to race with his 'mental' issues. Given they racked up a few wins each, you'd have to say this year would also have been Gilles'.
If he'd have stayed at Ferrari, maybe the '84 Ferrari wouldn't have been quite good enough... or maybe Gilles would've got the best out of it, and with WDC under his belt confidence, may have had enough to win there too?
If he still had stayed at Ferrari in '85, well this car was good to start with but too slow and unreliabile later on in the season. If he'd have switched teams by then or after this, it becomes all too subjective guesswork. And lets not forget, he was 32 when he died, so how many more good seasons would he have had left in him?
Actually it was 8:7 to Tambay in qualifying. Maybe Tambay was a little faster than Arnoux.
dom180 said:
mattikake said:
Gilles was always one of the most tragic of stories about a driver who was never a WDC. He could'be been in '79 except for following and accepting team orders.
'82 he was still much the better qualifier and racer compared to Pironi in the first 4 races. Given how Tambay did as his replacement in terms of results and the cars reliability, you can assume he would've walked tio the WDC.
Pironi was also arguably a considerably faster/better driver than Tambay.
'83 Arnoux was capably faster than Tambay but much more inconsistent race to race with his 'mental' issues. Given they racked up a few wins each, you'd have to say this year would also have been Gilles'.
If he'd have stayed at Ferrari, maybe the '84 Ferrari wouldn't have been quite good enough... or maybe Gilles would've got the best out of it, and with WDC under his belt confidence, may have had enough to win there too?
If he still had stayed at Ferrari in '85, well this car was good to start with but too slow and unreliabile later on in the season. If he'd have switched teams by then or after this, it becomes all too subjective guesswork. And lets not forget, he was 32 when he died, so how many more good seasons would he have had left in him?
>>'83 Arnoux was capably faster than Tambay but much more inconsistent race to race '82 he was still much the better qualifier and racer compared to Pironi in the first 4 races. Given how Tambay did as his replacement in terms of results and the cars reliability, you can assume he would've walked tio the WDC.
Pironi was also arguably a considerably faster/better driver than Tambay.
'83 Arnoux was capably faster than Tambay but much more inconsistent race to race with his 'mental' issues. Given they racked up a few wins each, you'd have to say this year would also have been Gilles'.
If he'd have stayed at Ferrari, maybe the '84 Ferrari wouldn't have been quite good enough... or maybe Gilles would've got the best out of it, and with WDC under his belt confidence, may have had enough to win there too?
If he still had stayed at Ferrari in '85, well this car was good to start with but too slow and unreliabile later on in the season. If he'd have switched teams by then or after this, it becomes all too subjective guesswork. And lets not forget, he was 32 when he died, so how many more good seasons would he have had left in him?
Actually it was 8:7 to Tambay in qualifying. Maybe Tambay was a little faster than Arnoux.
Jack Blag said:
dom180 said:
mattikake said:
Gilles was always one of the most tragic of stories about a driver who was never a WDC. He could'be been in '79 except for following and accepting team orders.
'82 he was still much the better qualifier and racer compared to Pironi in the first 4 races. Given how Tambay did as his replacement in terms of results and the cars reliability, you can assume he would've walked tio the WDC.
Pironi was also arguably a considerably faster/better driver than Tambay.
'83 Arnoux was capably faster than Tambay but much more inconsistent race to race with his 'mental' issues. Given they racked up a few wins each, you'd have to say this year would also have been Gilles'.
If he'd have stayed at Ferrari, maybe the '84 Ferrari wouldn't have been quite good enough... or maybe Gilles would've got the best out of it, and with WDC under his belt confidence, may have had enough to win there too?
If he still had stayed at Ferrari in '85, well this car was good to start with but too slow and unreliabile later on in the season. If he'd have switched teams by then or after this, it becomes all too subjective guesswork. And lets not forget, he was 32 when he died, so how many more good seasons would he have had left in him?
>>'83 Arnoux was capably faster than Tambay but much more inconsistent race to race '82 he was still much the better qualifier and racer compared to Pironi in the first 4 races. Given how Tambay did as his replacement in terms of results and the cars reliability, you can assume he would've walked tio the WDC.
Pironi was also arguably a considerably faster/better driver than Tambay.
'83 Arnoux was capably faster than Tambay but much more inconsistent race to race with his 'mental' issues. Given they racked up a few wins each, you'd have to say this year would also have been Gilles'.
If he'd have stayed at Ferrari, maybe the '84 Ferrari wouldn't have been quite good enough... or maybe Gilles would've got the best out of it, and with WDC under his belt confidence, may have had enough to win there too?
If he still had stayed at Ferrari in '85, well this car was good to start with but too slow and unreliabile later on in the season. If he'd have switched teams by then or after this, it becomes all too subjective guesswork. And lets not forget, he was 32 when he died, so how many more good seasons would he have had left in him?
Actually it was 8:7 to Tambay in qualifying. Maybe Tambay was a little faster than Arnoux.
dom180 said:
Jack Blag said:
dom180 said:
mattikake said:
Gilles was always one of the most tragic of stories about a driver who was never a WDC. He could'be been in '79 except for following and accepting team orders.
'82 he was still much the better qualifier and racer compared to Pironi in the first 4 races. Given how Tambay did as his replacement in terms of results and the cars reliability, you can assume he would've walked tio the WDC.
Pironi was also arguably a considerably faster/better driver than Tambay.
'83 Arnoux was capably faster than Tambay but much more inconsistent race to race with his 'mental' issues. Given they racked up a few wins each, you'd have to say this year would also have been Gilles'.
If he'd have stayed at Ferrari, maybe the '84 Ferrari wouldn't have been quite good enough... or maybe Gilles would've got the best out of it, and with WDC under his belt confidence, may have had enough to win there too?
If he still had stayed at Ferrari in '85, well this car was good to start with but too slow and unreliabile later on in the season. If he'd have switched teams by then or after this, it becomes all too subjective guesswork. And lets not forget, he was 32 when he died, so how many more good seasons would he have had left in him?
>>'83 Arnoux was capably faster than Tambay but much more inconsistent race to race '82 he was still much the better qualifier and racer compared to Pironi in the first 4 races. Given how Tambay did as his replacement in terms of results and the cars reliability, you can assume he would've walked tio the WDC.
Pironi was also arguably a considerably faster/better driver than Tambay.
'83 Arnoux was capably faster than Tambay but much more inconsistent race to race with his 'mental' issues. Given they racked up a few wins each, you'd have to say this year would also have been Gilles'.
If he'd have stayed at Ferrari, maybe the '84 Ferrari wouldn't have been quite good enough... or maybe Gilles would've got the best out of it, and with WDC under his belt confidence, may have had enough to win there too?
If he still had stayed at Ferrari in '85, well this car was good to start with but too slow and unreliabile later on in the season. If he'd have switched teams by then or after this, it becomes all too subjective guesswork. And lets not forget, he was 32 when he died, so how many more good seasons would he have had left in him?
Actually it was 8:7 to Tambay in qualifying. Maybe Tambay was a little faster than Arnoux.
Arnoux was brought in as the intended number 1 to replace Gilles as a full-on replacement, by Enzo himself of course, because he was believed to be quick and had proven himself to be quick when partnered with Prost and Jabouille at Renault. Arguably (mostly with Prost and Piquet) the quickest prospect in F1 at the time. Tambay was a temp, proven to be consistent and reliable but as a good number 2, never a team leader.
Arnoux never had his head quite right and had some massively off-form performances, especially to start with. And then started to lose in again toward the end of '83. He never performed as he could've done, and not even as he had done at Renault. He had issues.
btw, I have no problem with Arnoux. He nicely entertained me. He was a good fast driver, he just lost his head a bit too often. It looked like something that was inexperience to start with and he would grow out of it, but after '81, he got worse if anything.
mattikake said:
btw, I have no problem with Arnoux. He nicely entertained me. He was a good fast driver, he just lost his head a bit too often. It looked like something that was inexperience to start with and he would grow out of it, but after '81, he got worse if anything.
So why do you refer to him as mental, say that he had issues and put a video on youtube of racing incidents and car failures with subtitles like "Crazy" and "Mental"? I just think that it is unfair on the bloke if you have no medical evidence to back it up with. Genuine question.>>Tambay was a temp, proven to be consistent and reliable but as a good number 2, never a team leader.
Maybe that was the perception in '82 sure, but in '83 he ended up as more than a match (plus or minus poor Ferrari unreliability) for Arnoux in terms of speed so comments stating otherwise are not really accurate.
Maybe that was the perception in '82 sure, but in '83 he ended up as more than a match (plus or minus poor Ferrari unreliability) for Arnoux in terms of speed so comments stating otherwise are not really accurate.
Oddly enough I spent a couple hours trolling around YouTube at lunchtime enjoying villeneuve. I was struck by what a legend he had become in such a short period compared to senna. He made a couple of one offs in 77, died in may 82, so essentially 3 seasons. Interestingly, despite being described more than once as crazy, always sideways, and full throttle, he was loved by his peers, and one of them, I forget which, said he was always fair, if you had a run on him into a corner, and winning a corner, he'd concede, wouldnt turn in on you or weave/block you, but would of course be straight back at you at the next corner. Exhibit A Dijon. Senna not the same class.
They also reported he drove at a different level. Apparently at watkins glen ( a dangerous circuit) in the wet practice, soaking, standing, flooded, apparently scheckter had gone out and gone out to try and match gilles, while most had sat it out, and come back he was pleased with his time, which was quicker than anyone, until he saw gilles was 10secs quicker than him.
As to being champion, he'd played second fiddle to scheckter from mid season in 79, to help keep them ahead of Williams. 1980 Ferrari was a dog. Into the turbo era, 81 was a 'truck', 82 gilles felt pironi had betrayed him at imola by overtaking him late in the race, when he was struggling toward the end, and his belief, against an 'agreement' he vowed to beat then on every lap, every opportunity, and there is talk of this clouding his judgement there on, including of course zolder. He also felt pironi was conspiring against with fellow French team manager, ti turn the team against him, the manager had been pironi's best man weeks before, and wedding villeneuve had not been invited to. Although Reading comments from pironi when joined the team was that he had been surprised that gilles had bee so open and that've had been surprised not to have been no.2, in fact there was no 1 or 2 status and that gilles did not have the team working for him. The other comments from drivers were clear, gilles was confident he was quicker than any other driver, no matter what, even if he were in an inferior car.
I'll post some of the links later.
Villeneuve is the greatest driver, a complete one off, forget the stats. I know if someone had to race a car and win, and my life depended on the outcome, I had choice of driver, it would be villeneuve.
Would he have won the world championship had he lived to ripe old age?
Answer Yes, of course. But... That doesn't matter, and misses the entire point, gilles villeneuve is not judged by that measure of 'normal' drivers.
r
They also reported he drove at a different level. Apparently at watkins glen ( a dangerous circuit) in the wet practice, soaking, standing, flooded, apparently scheckter had gone out and gone out to try and match gilles, while most had sat it out, and come back he was pleased with his time, which was quicker than anyone, until he saw gilles was 10secs quicker than him.
As to being champion, he'd played second fiddle to scheckter from mid season in 79, to help keep them ahead of Williams. 1980 Ferrari was a dog. Into the turbo era, 81 was a 'truck', 82 gilles felt pironi had betrayed him at imola by overtaking him late in the race, when he was struggling toward the end, and his belief, against an 'agreement' he vowed to beat then on every lap, every opportunity, and there is talk of this clouding his judgement there on, including of course zolder. He also felt pironi was conspiring against with fellow French team manager, ti turn the team against him, the manager had been pironi's best man weeks before, and wedding villeneuve had not been invited to. Although Reading comments from pironi when joined the team was that he had been surprised that gilles had bee so open and that've had been surprised not to have been no.2, in fact there was no 1 or 2 status and that gilles did not have the team working for him. The other comments from drivers were clear, gilles was confident he was quicker than any other driver, no matter what, even if he were in an inferior car.
I'll post some of the links later.
Villeneuve is the greatest driver, a complete one off, forget the stats. I know if someone had to race a car and win, and my life depended on the outcome, I had choice of driver, it would be villeneuve.
Would he have won the world championship had he lived to ripe old age?
Answer Yes, of course. But... That doesn't matter, and misses the entire point, gilles villeneuve is not judged by that measure of 'normal' drivers.
r
stifler said:
mattikake said:
btw, I have no problem with Arnoux. He nicely entertained me. He was a good fast driver, he just lost his head a bit too often. It looked like something that was inexperience to start with and he would grow out of it, but after '81, he got worse if anything.
So why do you refer to him as mental, say that he had issues and put a video on youtube of racing incidents and car failures with subtitles like "Crazy" and "Mental"? I just think that it is unfair on the bloke if you have no medical evidence to back it up with. Genuine question.Doesn't mean I truly mean it. The media do this kinda of thing all the time in case you hadn't noticed.
Did you not think some of his moves were a bit crazy? Ranging from the most extremely brilliant overtakes in F1, the most brilliant pole laps or nearly winning a WDC in a supreme run of form. And then to driving the wrong way round a circuit, ignoring team orders for a win that would blatently get him sacked from a team he owed everything, insulting Ferrari management (so badly not only was it an immediate sacking, but neither ever said exactly what it was IIRC), deliberately holding up race leaders for laps at a time or to even taking out the race leader when being lapped.
Actually I take what I say back. He was clealy off his rocker!
dom180 said:
>>Tambay was a temp, proven to be consistent and reliable but as a good number 2, never a team leader.
Maybe that was the perception in '82 sure, but in '83 he ended up as more than a match (plus or minus poor Ferrari unreliability) for Arnoux in terms of speed so comments stating otherwise are not really accurate.
Yeah I know. Haven't you just completely quoted me out of context?Maybe that was the perception in '82 sure, but in '83 he ended up as more than a match (plus or minus poor Ferrari unreliability) for Arnoux in terms of speed so comments stating otherwise are not really accurate.
Mattikake said:
Arnoux never had his head quite right and had some massively off-form performances, especially to start with. And then started to lose in again toward the end of '83. He never performed as he could've done, and not even as he had done at Renault. He had issues.
The whole paddock, commentators, pundits, Ferrari management etc. knew Tambay as an intended number 2 and Arnoux as the number 1 due to how everyone knew they could race when at the top of their game. No question. Arnoux did eventually get up to form and was beating Tambay everywhere as expected, as intended, but then he became inconsistent again.In other words, it didn't work out to the Ferrari game-plan. But the cold hard stats tell the story even less accurately. No-one in sport is employed by statistics, they are employed by how they are generally perceived by those who know the sport.
Why the squabble for Alesi by Ferrari and Williams? Why the Squabble for Schumi by Jordan and Bennetton?
Northern Munkee said:
Interestingly, despite being described more than once as crazy, always sideways, and full throttle, he was loved by his peers, and one of them, I forget which, said he was always fair, if you had a run on him into a corner, and winning a corner, he'd concede, wouldnt turn in on you or weave/block you, but would of course be straight back at you at the next corner.
Lauda I think... those comments ring in his voice to me.Northern Munkee said:
As to being champion, he'd played second fiddle to scheckter from mid season in 79, to help keep them ahead of Williams.
Indeed Gilles deliberately finsihed behind JS in Italy. Ferrari and JS were miles ahead of Alan Jones and didn't need to use this team tactic at all, but GV complied because that was the Ferrari team mentality.GV literally threw his WDC away for his team leader.
Northern Munkee said:
1980 Ferrari was a dog. Into the turbo era, 81 was a 'truck', 82 gilles felt pironi had betrayed him at imola by overtaking him late in the race, when he was struggling toward the end, and his belief, against an 'agreement' he vowed to beat then on every lap, every opportunity, and there is talk of this clouding his judgement there on, including of course zolder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipqZNlyqMRI&feature=PlayList&p=20D0DDA25199729D&index=1Stack said:
Did you know Rene gave every (f1) driver a watch when he retired as a departing gift ...
Yeah I do remember that. Sure I have a clip somewhere of this! Very nice gesture... but still a bit strange?Stack said:
Do you know the real story as to why he was sacked by Ferrari after 1 race in 85 ?
I don't think that was ever released. I don't know. No-one I know knows! I can only assume that to mean he insulted Enzo directly, probably after Enzo told the stupid french farmer to drive faster.Oh hang-on, that was Prost wasn't it?
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