Teams not entering F1 2010
Discussion
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75164
Toyota making strong statements about not liking the rule changes. Halfway down the page more about Ferrari.
"Toyota has become the first team to confirm it is unlikely to enter the 2010 world championship unless 'significant' compromises are made to plans for a voluntary budget cap for next season.
Amid increasing unhappiness from teams about the decision of the FIA to impose a two-tier budget cap system next year, with a number of outfits evaluating whether or not to hold back on entering the 2010 championship, Toyota president John Howett has said his team was currently not in a position to commit for next year.
Teams only have until May 29 to confirm whether or not they will enter 2010, although there is a chance they could be allowed in at a later date.
"Under the rules as they are published, we cannot submit an entry," he told AUTOSPORT in an exclusive interview. "There are concerns about the governance process within the sport, that there are clearly prescribed areas of discussion within the sporting and technical rules and we don't feel they are being complied with.
"From Toyota's perspective there are a number of concerns that really need clarifications before we commit to the future. We want to be here. We believe we have been a good corporate citizen within the F1 environment, but now we must reflect long and hard on what we do in the future."
When asked to clarify what the chances were of Toyota lodging an entry by the end of this month, Howett said: "I would say it is very likely we won't enter unless something changes significantly."
AUTOSPORT understands that FOTA members have discussed the possibility of a block boycott of entries for 2010 while discussions between teams and the FIA continue about implementing a future budget cap that is acceptable to everyone.
Furthermore, high level sources have hinted to AUTOSPORT that Ferrari is seriously evaluating a future outside F1 - having been left furious at both the imposition of a budget cap and the manner in which it has been introduced.
There are suggestions that some teams believe the FIA using last week's FIA World Motor Sport Council to push through the 2010 regulations went against official protocol - and also could be a breach of a 'veto' right that Ferrari is believed to have relating to future regulation changes it received as part of an agreement signed with Bernie Ecclestone and the FIA in 2005.
It is this right that di Montezemolo is believed to have been referring to in a letter he sent to FIA president Max Mosley last week detailing an agreement Ferrari had with the FIA confirming that the team would maintain contractual rights that existed under the 1998 Concorde Agreement.
"As you know additional rights were also granted to Ferrari on the same occasion and reconfirmed at a later stage," added di Montezemolo.
While time is running out for teams to settle their differences with the FIA, Howett conceded that his outfit felt comfortable about the possibility of switching to other categories.
In recent months, the Japanese manufacturer has been linked with a return to Le Mans – having last raced there in 1999. The company is believed to feel it has unfinished business at the French classic, having failed to win with its GT-One car.
Coincidentally, Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo is to be the official starter at this year's Le Mans race amid suggestions he too could be seeing sportscars as the future for his team's racing programme.
Howett said: "I believe there are many other activities that we could undertake. We are a motorsport team and I think we are not against cost saving, we are not necessarily against budget cap but it depends how it is administered.
"It is value that is intrinsically important. What is the value of the environment we are competing in? There are many alternatives we can consider.
"Our real heart is to remain in F1, but now we have to start considering what are the best alternatives and discussing with the other manufacturer teams what their opinion is and what their intentions are."
FOTA is still pressing ahead with plans to implement dramatic cost cuts in F1, and hopes to submit proposals to the FIA within the next fortnight.
Howett added: "I think within Toyota we are really relaxed. We want to remain here, we want to be here next year, but if it is felt we are not welcome then we have got lots of other things we can do.
"We can be as competitive and happy doing that, so hopefully common sense will prevail. But we are becoming increasingly concerned about whether common sense does exist." "
Then Bernie says this!
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75166
"Bernie Ecclestone says Ferrari and Formula 1 are perfect for each other despite the Italian squad's disagreements with FIA president Max Mosley.
Mosley and Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo have been at loggerheads since the governing body decided to introduce a budget cap for the 2010 season, meaning Formula 1 would become a two-tier championship.
The FIA president said Formula 1 could survive without Ferrari, the only team who has competed in every championship since 1950.
Ecclestone feels Mosley was just trying to hit back at di Montezemolo, and said Formula 1 is the perfect place for Ferrari.
"I don't think Max really meant what he said, he was just having a go at Luca a little bit," Ecclestone told Reuters.
"Formula One is Ferrari and Ferrari is Formula One. It's just a marriage made in heaven, one of those super things that work well."
The F1 supremo also reckons the Italian squad will return to the top following a poor start to the 2009 season.
"They'll catch up," said Ecclestone. "I think with (Jean) Todt gone, we've gone a little bit back to the way it was before Todt went there." "
Toyota making strong statements about not liking the rule changes. Halfway down the page more about Ferrari.
"Toyota has become the first team to confirm it is unlikely to enter the 2010 world championship unless 'significant' compromises are made to plans for a voluntary budget cap for next season.
Amid increasing unhappiness from teams about the decision of the FIA to impose a two-tier budget cap system next year, with a number of outfits evaluating whether or not to hold back on entering the 2010 championship, Toyota president John Howett has said his team was currently not in a position to commit for next year.
Teams only have until May 29 to confirm whether or not they will enter 2010, although there is a chance they could be allowed in at a later date.
"Under the rules as they are published, we cannot submit an entry," he told AUTOSPORT in an exclusive interview. "There are concerns about the governance process within the sport, that there are clearly prescribed areas of discussion within the sporting and technical rules and we don't feel they are being complied with.
"From Toyota's perspective there are a number of concerns that really need clarifications before we commit to the future. We want to be here. We believe we have been a good corporate citizen within the F1 environment, but now we must reflect long and hard on what we do in the future."
When asked to clarify what the chances were of Toyota lodging an entry by the end of this month, Howett said: "I would say it is very likely we won't enter unless something changes significantly."
AUTOSPORT understands that FOTA members have discussed the possibility of a block boycott of entries for 2010 while discussions between teams and the FIA continue about implementing a future budget cap that is acceptable to everyone.
Furthermore, high level sources have hinted to AUTOSPORT that Ferrari is seriously evaluating a future outside F1 - having been left furious at both the imposition of a budget cap and the manner in which it has been introduced.
There are suggestions that some teams believe the FIA using last week's FIA World Motor Sport Council to push through the 2010 regulations went against official protocol - and also could be a breach of a 'veto' right that Ferrari is believed to have relating to future regulation changes it received as part of an agreement signed with Bernie Ecclestone and the FIA in 2005.
It is this right that di Montezemolo is believed to have been referring to in a letter he sent to FIA president Max Mosley last week detailing an agreement Ferrari had with the FIA confirming that the team would maintain contractual rights that existed under the 1998 Concorde Agreement.
"As you know additional rights were also granted to Ferrari on the same occasion and reconfirmed at a later stage," added di Montezemolo.
While time is running out for teams to settle their differences with the FIA, Howett conceded that his outfit felt comfortable about the possibility of switching to other categories.
In recent months, the Japanese manufacturer has been linked with a return to Le Mans – having last raced there in 1999. The company is believed to feel it has unfinished business at the French classic, having failed to win with its GT-One car.
Coincidentally, Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo is to be the official starter at this year's Le Mans race amid suggestions he too could be seeing sportscars as the future for his team's racing programme.
Howett said: "I believe there are many other activities that we could undertake. We are a motorsport team and I think we are not against cost saving, we are not necessarily against budget cap but it depends how it is administered.
"It is value that is intrinsically important. What is the value of the environment we are competing in? There are many alternatives we can consider.
"Our real heart is to remain in F1, but now we have to start considering what are the best alternatives and discussing with the other manufacturer teams what their opinion is and what their intentions are."
FOTA is still pressing ahead with plans to implement dramatic cost cuts in F1, and hopes to submit proposals to the FIA within the next fortnight.
Howett added: "I think within Toyota we are really relaxed. We want to remain here, we want to be here next year, but if it is felt we are not welcome then we have got lots of other things we can do.
"We can be as competitive and happy doing that, so hopefully common sense will prevail. But we are becoming increasingly concerned about whether common sense does exist." "
Then Bernie says this!
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75166
"Bernie Ecclestone says Ferrari and Formula 1 are perfect for each other despite the Italian squad's disagreements with FIA president Max Mosley.
Mosley and Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo have been at loggerheads since the governing body decided to introduce a budget cap for the 2010 season, meaning Formula 1 would become a two-tier championship.
The FIA president said Formula 1 could survive without Ferrari, the only team who has competed in every championship since 1950.
Ecclestone feels Mosley was just trying to hit back at di Montezemolo, and said Formula 1 is the perfect place for Ferrari.
"I don't think Max really meant what he said, he was just having a go at Luca a little bit," Ecclestone told Reuters.
"Formula One is Ferrari and Ferrari is Formula One. It's just a marriage made in heaven, one of those super things that work well."
The F1 supremo also reckons the Italian squad will return to the top following a poor start to the 2009 season.
"They'll catch up," said Ecclestone. "I think with (Jean) Todt gone, we've gone a little bit back to the way it was before Todt went there." "
stifler said:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75164
There are suggestions that some teams believe the FIA using last week's FIA World Motor Sport Council to push through the 2010 regulations went against official protocol - and also could be a breach of a 'veto' right that Ferrari is believed to have relating to future regulation changes it received as part of an agreement signed with Bernie Ecclestone and the FIA in 2005.
It is this right that di Montezemolo is believed to have been referring to in a letter he sent to FIA president Max Mosley last week detailing an agreement Ferrari had with the FIA confirming that the team would maintain contractual rights that existed under the 1998 Concorde Agreement.
"As you know additional rights were also granted to Ferrari on the same occasion and reconfirmed at a later stage," added di Montezemolo.
How/why would you give Ferrari a veto on regulation change? I know they are a big draw, biggest brand in F1 (from racing point of view) but not to the point where you'd give them essentially the right to decide on changes of the rules (which effectively a veto gives). And why would the other teams agree? I can only assume BE gave the other teams a shed load of extra cash as a bribe to sign on to that.There are suggestions that some teams believe the FIA using last week's FIA World Motor Sport Council to push through the 2010 regulations went against official protocol - and also could be a breach of a 'veto' right that Ferrari is believed to have relating to future regulation changes it received as part of an agreement signed with Bernie Ecclestone and the FIA in 2005.
It is this right that di Montezemolo is believed to have been referring to in a letter he sent to FIA president Max Mosley last week detailing an agreement Ferrari had with the FIA confirming that the team would maintain contractual rights that existed under the 1998 Concorde Agreement.
"As you know additional rights were also granted to Ferrari on the same occasion and reconfirmed at a later stage," added di Montezemolo.
ETA as an aside Toyota tends to follow Honda around them and try to beat them (probably for domestic bragging), there was talk of pulling out when Honda went. Is this the opportunity they are looking for, without the bad PR, of just pulling out? While I cant see Ferrari going to Le Mans, I could see Toyota, with hybrid tech, plus Acura (Honda) is moving toward Le Mans, and its also unfinished business for Toyota. Only Mazda has won at Le Mans among the big Jap manufacturers, and its popular in Japan.
Edited by Northern Munkee on Saturday 9th May 15:58
Northern Munkee said:
stifler said:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75164
There are suggestions that some teams believe the FIA using last week's FIA World Motor Sport Council to push through the 2010 regulations went against official protocol - and also could be a breach of a 'veto' right that Ferrari is believed to have relating to future regulation changes it received as part of an agreement signed with Bernie Ecclestone and the FIA in 2005.
It is this right that di Montezemolo is believed to have been referring to in a letter he sent to FIA president Max Mosley last week detailing an agreement Ferrari had with the FIA confirming that the team would maintain contractual rights that existed under the 1998 Concorde Agreement.
"As you know additional rights were also granted to Ferrari on the same occasion and reconfirmed at a later stage," added di Montezemolo.
How/why would you give Ferrari a veto on regulation change? I know they are a big draw, biggest brand in F1 (from racing point of view) but not to the point where you'd give them essentially the right to decide on changes of the rules (which effectively a veto gives). And why would the other teams agree? I can only assume BE gave the other teams a shed load of extra cash as a bribe to sign on to that.There are suggestions that some teams believe the FIA using last week's FIA World Motor Sport Council to push through the 2010 regulations went against official protocol - and also could be a breach of a 'veto' right that Ferrari is believed to have relating to future regulation changes it received as part of an agreement signed with Bernie Ecclestone and the FIA in 2005.
It is this right that di Montezemolo is believed to have been referring to in a letter he sent to FIA president Max Mosley last week detailing an agreement Ferrari had with the FIA confirming that the team would maintain contractual rights that existed under the 1998 Concorde Agreement.
"As you know additional rights were also granted to Ferrari on the same occasion and reconfirmed at a later stage," added di Montezemolo.
andyps said:
Northern Munkee said:
stifler said:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75164
There are suggestions that some teams believe the FIA using last week's FIA World Motor Sport Council to push through the 2010 regulations went against official protocol - and also could be a breach of a 'veto' right that Ferrari is believed to have relating to future regulation changes it received as part of an agreement signed with Bernie Ecclestone and the FIA in 2005.
It is this right that di Montezemolo is believed to have been referring to in a letter he sent to FIA president Max Mosley last week detailing an agreement Ferrari had with the FIA confirming that the team would maintain contractual rights that existed under the 1998 Concorde Agreement.
"As you know additional rights were also granted to Ferrari on the same occasion and reconfirmed at a later stage," added di Montezemolo.
How/why would you give Ferrari a veto on regulation change? I know they are a big draw, biggest brand in F1 (from racing point of view) but not to the point where you'd give them essentially the right to decide on changes of the rules (which effectively a veto gives). And why would the other teams agree? I can only assume BE gave the other teams a shed load of extra cash as a bribe to sign on to that.There are suggestions that some teams believe the FIA using last week's FIA World Motor Sport Council to push through the 2010 regulations went against official protocol - and also could be a breach of a 'veto' right that Ferrari is believed to have relating to future regulation changes it received as part of an agreement signed with Bernie Ecclestone and the FIA in 2005.
It is this right that di Montezemolo is believed to have been referring to in a letter he sent to FIA president Max Mosley last week detailing an agreement Ferrari had with the FIA confirming that the team would maintain contractual rights that existed under the 1998 Concorde Agreement.
"As you know additional rights were also granted to Ferrari on the same occasion and reconfirmed at a later stage," added di Montezemolo.
Edited by Northern Munkee on Saturday 9th May 16:28
Howett has been a breath of fresh air in the pit lane in that he does seem to be straight in what he says. So I would suggest that Toyota are concerned and will not commit as the rules stand.
He is also quite clear with the intent of his statement that:
"There are concerns about the governance process within the sport, that there are clearly prescribed areas of discussion within the sporting and technical rules and we don't feel they are being complied with."
I suppose he could have said that Mosley in incompetant and doesn't listen.
It is very worrying though.
When the threat of the breakaway was being developed - up until Ferrari accepted the bribe - the money that was around suggested that it coule be successful. Now I'm not so sure. I don't believe there can be a new series as such and will be forced to join some other series. Fair enough, Ferrari and Toyota - and the others? - will bring so much to it that they should be able to change it to a de facto alternative Grand Prix.
The worry is that the teams might split - BMW to spend their money on saloons, Merc to go with them, Toyota to sportscars with Renault?, and Ferrari.
It's Spa this weekend for sportscars. I wonder what the gate will be. this close to Le Mans it should be quite good but I wonder.
He is also quite clear with the intent of his statement that:
"There are concerns about the governance process within the sport, that there are clearly prescribed areas of discussion within the sporting and technical rules and we don't feel they are being complied with."
I suppose he could have said that Mosley in incompetant and doesn't listen.
It is very worrying though.
When the threat of the breakaway was being developed - up until Ferrari accepted the bribe - the money that was around suggested that it coule be successful. Now I'm not so sure. I don't believe there can be a new series as such and will be forced to join some other series. Fair enough, Ferrari and Toyota - and the others? - will bring so much to it that they should be able to change it to a de facto alternative Grand Prix.
The worry is that the teams might split - BMW to spend their money on saloons, Merc to go with them, Toyota to sportscars with Renault?, and Ferrari.
It's Spa this weekend for sportscars. I wonder what the gate will be. this close to Le Mans it should be quite good but I wonder.
Derek Smith said:
Howett ------- is also quite clear with the intent of his statement that:
"There are concerns about the governance process within the sport, that there are clearly prescribed areas of discussion within the sporting and technical rules and we don't feel they are being complied with."
I suppose he could have said that Mosley in incompetant and doesn't listen.
It is very worrying though.
That is quite a statement to make, but given the (perception?) of the Japanese culture it is quite understandable that they are concerned that the FIA is not an honourable institution and the governance issue becomes very important to them."There are concerns about the governance process within the sport, that there are clearly prescribed areas of discussion within the sporting and technical rules and we don't feel they are being complied with."
I suppose he could have said that Mosley in incompetant and doesn't listen.
It is very worrying though.
Why would anyone commit to a set of rules which are unknown and could easily change on the whim of the dictator in charge. Especially when it could end up costing the organisation concerned a large amount of money, or loss of credibility later.
andyps said:
That is quite a statement to make, but given the (perception?) of the Japanese culture it is quite understandable that they are concerned that the FIA is not an honourable institution and the governance issue becomes very important to them.
Why would anyone commit to a set of rules which are unknown and could easily change on the whim of the dictator in charge. Especially when it could end up costing the organisation concerned a large amount of money, or loss of credibility later.
I know a little bit about Japanese business practices and I think you have a good point there. It suggests that Howett is under a certain amount of pressure from his bosses. Would explain the remarkable nature of the outburst.Why would anyone commit to a set of rules which are unknown and could easily change on the whim of the dictator in charge. Especially when it could end up costing the organisation concerned a large amount of money, or loss of credibility later.
Thinking about it, bigger sports than F1 (in commercial terms) have survived strikes by the 'players' so provided the reasons are communicated to the fans I think F1 could survive a season of there being no F1 racing.
It would have massive knock-on effects to the commercial rights holders, tracks, fans and infrastructure supporting F1 teams, but it could be that everyone comes out of it with a somewhat more balanced perspective on what is meant to be a sport.
Nick M said:
Thinking about it, bigger sports than F1 (in commercial terms) have survived strikes by the 'players' so provided the reasons are communicated to the fans I think F1 could survive a season of there being no F1 racing.
It would have massive knock-on effects to the commercial rights holders, tracks, fans and infrastructure supporting F1 teams, but it could be that everyone comes out of it with a somewhat more balanced perspective on what is meant to be a sport.
I dont think the teams would survive a strike.It would have massive knock-on effects to the commercial rights holders, tracks, fans and infrastructure supporting F1 teams, but it could be that everyone comes out of it with a somewhat more balanced perspective on what is meant to be a sport.
Its not been a "sport" for a long time, its a buisiness.
You might see Toyota leave but Bernie is right about Ferrari, they wont leave F1. However they are pushing hard to get the rules changed in there favor, which is nothing unusual for Ferrari.
Lets hope that by 2011 there is some sort of consistency in the rules and the budgets.
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