F1 Diesel car

[Scooby_snax]

With the change in the rules next year viz no fuel stops I wonder if we will see diesel F1 cars on the same vein as Le Mans cars. Ie would the less fuel (weight) they need to carry offset any performance shortfall?

[Scuffers]

Scooby_snax said:

With the change in the rules next year viz no fuel stops I wonder if we will see diesel F1 cars on the same vein as Le Mans cars. Ie would the less fuel (weight) they need to carry offset any performance shortfall?

why?

Dismals would be way too slow, unless you do what the ACO have done and rig the rules so they can have bigger engines, turbo's, and run of synthetic diesel, at which point you might as well just call it WWF(1)

[johnnywb]

F1 cars have to be naturally aspirated, so it's a non starter

[Fire99]

johnnywb said:

F1 cars have to be naturally aspirated, so it's a non starter

At the moment they do. Not to say new regs wouldn't allow F.I.

Either way I would choke on my cornflakes if Diesel appeared in F1

[sherman]

Turbos were banned sometime in the 80's because the engines were producing too much power. It was around the same time ground effect areodynamics were banned.

[Northern Munkee]

Mosley proposals for future include a world engine 2 litre four pot, and f1 it would be turbo charged, so that may return, power controlled by limiting bar pressure, but running diesels against petrols causes some much trouble with equivalency look at le mans and wtcc that I can't see it happening, and f1 as a platform for new tech, the future of engine tech wouldn't look to be diesel.

[Fire99]

Northern Munkee said:

Mosley proposals for future include a world engine 2 litre four pot, and f1 it would be turbo charged, so that may return, power controlled by limiting bar pressure, but running diesels against petrols causes some much trouble with equivalency look at le mans and wtcc that I can't see it happening, and f1 as a platform for new tech, the future of engine tech wouldn't look to be diesel.

that's my slant on it.

[jammiedodger26]

sherman said:

Turbos were banned sometime in the 80's because the engines were producing too much power. It was around the same time ground effect areodynamics were banned.

I've never understood this...how can the engines be producing too much power? Surely the point of the sport is to push the boundaries in terms of speed, downforce, aerodynamics etc?

[Scuffers]

jammiedodger26 said:

sherman said:

Turbos were banned sometime in the 80's because the engines were producing too much power. It was around the same time ground effect areodynamics were banned.

I've never understood this...how can the engines be producing too much power? Surely the point of the sport is to push the boundaries in terms of speed, downforce, aerodynamics etc?

welcome to the world of 'speed kills'!

the very idea of a 4 pot F1 engine is just horrific, it's bad enough them all being stale V8's... I miss the days of different engine configurations all sounding unique... (Ferrari's flat 12 for example)

[tank slapper]

jammiedodger26 said:

sherman said:

Turbos were banned sometime in the 80's because the engines were producing too much power. It was around the same time ground effect areodynamics were banned.

I've never understood this...how can the engines be producing too much power? Surely the point of the sport is to push the boundaries in terms of speed, downforce, aerodynamics etc?

The cars become too fast for the circuits safety features. The faster they go, the more run off space they need, and the faster they corner the more serious the consequences of a crash. If F1 were unlimited, the forces exerted on the driver would be huge and the energies involved in a crash would almost certainly result in fatalities.

What is quite amazing though is that technology and engineering have made up for the brute force of turbo engines and ground effect aerodynamics.

Edit: It is not so much 'speed kills' but being realistic with risk. It would not be acceptable for motor racing to have the casualty rate that it did 50 years ago.

Edited by tank slapper on Monday 11th May 15:42

[jammiedodger26]

Scuffers said:

jammiedodger26 said:

sherman said:

Turbos were banned sometime in the 80's because the engines were producing too much power. It was around the same time ground effect areodynamics were banned.

I've never understood this...how can the engines be producing too much power? Surely the point of the sport is to push the boundaries in terms of speed, downforce, aerodynamics etc?

welcome to the world of 'speed kills'!

Ah...in that case then brake technology will need to be improved as well...only another plus as far as I can make out!

[Scuffers]

tank slapper said:

jammiedodger26 said:

sherman said:

Turbos were banned sometime in the 80's because the engines were producing too much power. It was around the same time ground effect areodynamics were banned.

I've never understood this...how can the engines be producing too much power? Surely the point of the sport is to push the boundaries in terms of speed, downforce, aerodynamics etc?

The cars become too fast for the circuits safety features. The faster they go, the more run off space they need, and the faster they corner the more serious the consequences of a crash. If F1 were unlimited, the forces exerted on the driver would be huge and the energies involved in a crash would almost certainly result in fatalities.

What is quite amazing though is that technology and engineering have made up for the brute force of turbo engines and ground effect aerodynamics.

Edit: It is not so much 'speed kills' but being realistic with risk. It would not be acceptable for motor racing to have the casualty rate that it did 50 years ago.

Edited by tank slapper on Monday 11th May 15:42

whilst I don't want to return to dead drivers at the rate of the 60's etc, speed had very little to do with them, car and cct safety were the main issues.

I am not suggesting 4000+ Bhp engines, just a simple cc limit, std fuel, the rest being open.

if they get too much power, reduce the CC, job done.

[dpbird90]

It's not really something we want to see, but a diesel F1 car would be an incredible technological achievement. And as you said, no refuelling from 2010; diesel would be an advantage, obviously the rules wouldn't allow it, but I think a F1 TDi would be a frequent front runner, given the right team of experts and the right budget. If a F1 Tdi ever does get built, I'd stick one hell of a lot of cash on Audi doing it.

[german tony]

There is nothing fabulous about using forced injection in a racing car, it's been going on for decades. Thus a diesel turbo F1 car would be neither big nor clever.