BTCC Cost cutting measures actually look half decent shocker
Discussion
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75778
I like the idea of faster, bigger cars. I like the idea of "push to pass" which I guess is basically watered down KERS. I like that 2.0 PETROL 4 pots with big turbos are the only allowed engines. I like the idea that a complete car costs £100k, which is the same as an Aston DB9, and while the Aston is a fantastic car, the idea of getting a car and racing it is much better.
The only thing I don't like the idea of on there is FWD only. RWD means more tail happiness, which is much cooler.
I like the idea of faster, bigger cars. I like the idea of "push to pass" which I guess is basically watered down KERS. I like that 2.0 PETROL 4 pots with big turbos are the only allowed engines. I like the idea that a complete car costs £100k, which is the same as an Aston DB9, and while the Aston is a fantastic car, the idea of getting a car and racing it is much better.
The only thing I don't like the idea of on there is FWD only. RWD means more tail happiness, which is much cooler.
I'm sure I'll be labelled a nay-sayer and I hate to say it but I doubt this is going to make a huge difference in costs. What it will do is f
k all the established privateer teams about for a couple of years.
While 100 grand is a much cheaper figure than a new car now, the cars are rarely bought new, they're usually 2nd hand ex-WTCC cars so I doubt the price paid by most teams vastly exceeds that figure. They've also been running 300bhp 4-pots for ages now, it's not exactly rocket science anymore, all they're doing by introducing Turbos is facilitating a gimmicky push button power boost.
I must say I don't understand what the point is. The cars are safe, the racing is close and there are loads of teams running at the moment. If they're trying to tempt OEM's back into it, then it seems like a knee-jerk reaction, as by the time the regs come into effect, the markets will have recovered and they'll likely have enough cash again. Not only that but the OEMs already have to build cars to WTCC specs, so developing a BTCC car with a different spec wont be economical.
k all the established privateer teams about for a couple of years. While 100 grand is a much cheaper figure than a new car now, the cars are rarely bought new, they're usually 2nd hand ex-WTCC cars so I doubt the price paid by most teams vastly exceeds that figure. They've also been running 300bhp 4-pots for ages now, it's not exactly rocket science anymore, all they're doing by introducing Turbos is facilitating a gimmicky push button power boost.
I must say I don't understand what the point is. The cars are safe, the racing is close and there are loads of teams running at the moment. If they're trying to tempt OEM's back into it, then it seems like a knee-jerk reaction, as by the time the regs come into effect, the markets will have recovered and they'll likely have enough cash again. Not only that but the OEMs already have to build cars to WTCC specs, so developing a BTCC car with a different spec wont be economical.
Edited by The Wookie on Wednesday 3rd June 11:52
As mentioned above it's 2nd hand WTCC purchases that feed the series. It's no good going your own way when every other touring car series WTCC, Swedish, Dutch, Danish, French, Asian and all the others are running to WTCC rules. It didn't work last time in 2001, all we got were a few Vauxhall Astra Coupes winning races run by Vauxhall, remember the privateer champion in 2001? It was Tommy Erdos in the Lexus IS200, a car which he only drove in 12 of the 26 races that year. It was dismally quiet with the BTC rules until they allowed WTCC spec cars in.
The other series are not going to follow this lead so it'll be another blind alley for the BTCC.
The other series are not going to follow this lead so it'll be another blind alley for the BTCC.
Edited by FourWheelDrift on Wednesday 3rd June 12:04
The Wookie said:
I'm sure I'll be labelled a nay-sayer and I hate to say it but I doubt this is going to make a huge difference in costs.
You might have missed the point. Its not the price of a car, its the cost of running them thats the biggest expense a team has. So to cut the cost of running a car by about 50% is a huge saving for the teams and it will open it up to new teams to enter.FourWheelDrift said:
As mentioned above it's 2nd hand WTCC purchases that feed the series. It's no good going your own way when every other touring car series WTCC, Swedish, Dutch, Danish, French, Asian and all the others are running to WTCC rules.
Its pretty clear that the WTCC is in big trouble. So if I were the BTCC I wouldn't be wanting to hang my future on a series that will implode. Alan Gow is no dummy and I think he knows how to run a successful championship far more than we do.touring fan said:
You might have missed the point. Its not the price of a car, its the cost of running them thats the biggest expense a team has. So to cut the cost of running a car by about 50% is a huge saving for the teams and it will open it up to new teams to enter.
Absolutely, but how does these changes reduce the running costs of the car? They'll still need engine and gearbox rebuilds, they'll still have as many mechanics at the circuit as they can afford, they'll still use as many tyres as they can afford, and those differences will still offer the same advantages that already exist308mate said:
Why would they cut BMW out with FWD only?
BMW do not produce their own FWD car (as TG say, BMW reckon FWD is the devil's work), so that gets rid of any BMW. But as german tony says, they could enter the Mini, which would be cool, small hatches battling it out with much bigger stuff, like the old days.They won't be able to run the Mini as it says they are looking to bring in larger, proper touring cars not the hatchbacks & shopping trolleys that some have been running.
Oh hang on, the new Mini might be allowed, it is big enough
[pic]http://www.ocoop.com/images/gallery/mini-old-new.gifp/pic]
Oh hang on, the new Mini might be allowed, it is big enough
[pic]http://www.ocoop.com/images/gallery/mini-old-new.gifp/pic]
cj_eds said:
Like most, I started to read it thinking "there goes the BTCC". Actually sounded quite good by the end though, apart RWD bit mentioned many times above already. Could understand no 4WD after the A4 Quattro's, but not RWD.
Indeed what bunch of tt thought this cobblers up - christ Gow is from Frikkin Aus, where they have real Touring cars not the Gay shopping trollies we have over here.They shoul just import 15 Holdens and 15 Fords Ausy Tours and go REAL Racing.
I worked for a while at BMW's plant in Regensberg (then the home of the 3-series, now the home of the 1 series). One of the older development engineers there told me & his younger, less well informed colleagues that back in the late 70's BMW had bought a number of FWD cars, a Ford Fiesta was mentioned along with a Renault 5 & I think a Fiat of some sort, in an attempt to understand how the system worked. This was done at their Münich based test facility. They tried converting 1 of their then 3-Series, the 1 before the E30, to work on a FWD basis by inserting the running gear from the cars they had bought. They didn't manage to make it work successfully & gave up. Since then FWD has been a no-go area at BMW. A cynic might observe that it was around this time that BMW started to make such a song & dance about how much better RWD was/is. I then asked why, if RWD was the way to go, why they made a variety of 4wd cars. The answer was unrepeatable.
I tried asking a friend's Porsche employed neighbour the same thing about his company's 4WD products with not dissimilar results.
I have more stories about BMW's alleged engineering prowess if anybody's interested. Suffice to say that there are a shocking number of Mercs/Audis parked in the employees' car park.
I tried asking a friend's Porsche employed neighbour the same thing about his company's 4WD products with not dissimilar results.
I have more stories about BMW's alleged engineering prowess if anybody's interested. Suffice to say that there are a shocking number of Mercs/Audis parked in the employees' car park.
german tony said:
I worked for a while at BMW's plant in Regensberg (then the home of the 3-series, now the home of the 1 series). One of the older development engineers there told me & his younger, less well informed colleagues that back in the late 70's BMW had bought a number of FWD cars, a Ford Fiesta was mentioned along with a Renault 5 & I think a Fiat of some sort, in an attempt to understand how the system worked. This was done at their Münich based test facility. They tried converting 1 of their then 3-Series, the 1 before the E30, to work on a FWD basis by inserting the running gear from the cars they had bought. They didn't manage to make it work successfully & gave up. Since then FWD has been a no-go area at BMW. A cynic might observe that it was around this time that BMW started to make such a song & dance about how much better RWD was/is. I then asked why, if RWD was the way to go, why they made a variety of 4wd cars. The answer was unrepeatable.
I tried asking a friend's Porsche employed neighbour the same thing about his company's 4WD products with not dissimilar results.
I have more stories about BMW's alleged engineering prowess if anybody's interested. Suffice to say that there are a shocking number of Mercs/Audis parked in the employees' car park.
Go on then. PM me if they are vaguely libelous. I tried asking a friend's Porsche employed neighbour the same thing about his company's 4WD products with not dissimilar results.
I have more stories about BMW's alleged engineering prowess if anybody's interested. Suffice to say that there are a shocking number of Mercs/Audis parked in the employees' car park.
Seriously though, I would be interested.
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