Pitpass have an interesting take on things
Discussion
so is MM going to accede to the teams demands or go for the destruct option?
http://pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?f...
http://pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?f...
Pitpass takes some unusual slants on anything that includes Mosley. I can see their argument but what I can't see is Mosley kicking out all the FOTA teams.
Mosley is not, to my mind, arguing from a position of stength. He's up for re-election soon and after his showing over recent years you've got to say that he's about as popular as Hazel Blears. Once Mosley goes then things will change. It's all very well talking about a thousand year reich but all Mosley's plans will fall apart once he goes. The teams are going for short term solutions and these will be changed for 2011 if not before.
The threat from Ferrari to go elsewhere proved one thing: they pull the punters. There was a melee of international press aroung the hotel after the meeting with Mosley when they said they were off. It was the perfect display of strength. There wasn't that squabble around Mosley when he was found in the Chelsea sex dungeon. The international media doesn't care about Mosley. Ferrari, despite the fact that so many dislike them, pull the punters, the media, the fans.
Mosley is not, to my mind, arguing from a position of stength. He's up for re-election soon and after his showing over recent years you've got to say that he's about as popular as Hazel Blears. Once Mosley goes then things will change. It's all very well talking about a thousand year reich but all Mosley's plans will fall apart once he goes. The teams are going for short term solutions and these will be changed for 2011 if not before.
The threat from Ferrari to go elsewhere proved one thing: they pull the punters. There was a melee of international press aroung the hotel after the meeting with Mosley when they said they were off. It was the perfect display of strength. There wasn't that squabble around Mosley when he was found in the Chelsea sex dungeon. The international media doesn't care about Mosley. Ferrari, despite the fact that so many dislike them, pull the punters, the media, the fans.
Problem is, regardless of their posturing Ferrari are contracted til 2012. So I wonder whether Moseley really feels they will pull out.
Being in breach of contract it'd be very easy for him to spread his hands, express regret and say he did all he could but wouldn't accede to unreasonable demands and intransigence.
The non-specialist press tend to repeat his comments and not analyse them too closely.
Being in breach of contract it'd be very easy for him to spread his hands, express regret and say he did all he could but wouldn't accede to unreasonable demands and intransigence.
The non-specialist press tend to repeat his comments and not analyse them too closely.
ariel said:
so is MM going to accede to the teams demands or go for the destruct option?
The destruct button hasn't yet been pressed, but his finger is certainly hovering over it...http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75796
Autosport.com said:
Start your own series, Mosley tells FOTA
FIA president Max Mosley has indicated that the governing body is not about to bow to demands being placed on it by Formula 1's current teams about their entry to the 2010 championship.
Nine of the sport's current competitors submitted their entries to next year's championship on the condition that a new Concorde Agreement was signed by June 12 and that next year's cost-cutting rule changes are abandoned in favour of their preferred regulations.
However, speaking to Swiss publication Motorsport Aktuell, Mosley has made it clear that it is unlikely a Concorde Agreement can be put together in such a short time frame - and he has suggested the rebel teams go off and set up their own championship if they are unhappy.
"A Concorde Agreement which one receives so late can't be signed by June 12," Mosley was quoted as saying.
"We now have a conflict and we will see who succeeds in the end. I say to them: If you want to draw up your own rules, then you can organise your own championship. But we have the Formula 1 championship.
"We draw up the rules for that. We have been doing that for 60 years and we will continue doing so."
With a whole host of new teams having submitted entries to next year's championship, there are no shortage of competitors who can fill the grid if current teams do not wish to compete.
Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali said last week that if the conditions laid down by FOTA's nine members were not accepted, then their entries would be invalid.
FIA president Max Mosley has indicated that the governing body is not about to bow to demands being placed on it by Formula 1's current teams about their entry to the 2010 championship.
Nine of the sport's current competitors submitted their entries to next year's championship on the condition that a new Concorde Agreement was signed by June 12 and that next year's cost-cutting rule changes are abandoned in favour of their preferred regulations.
However, speaking to Swiss publication Motorsport Aktuell, Mosley has made it clear that it is unlikely a Concorde Agreement can be put together in such a short time frame - and he has suggested the rebel teams go off and set up their own championship if they are unhappy.
"A Concorde Agreement which one receives so late can't be signed by June 12," Mosley was quoted as saying.
"We now have a conflict and we will see who succeeds in the end. I say to them: If you want to draw up your own rules, then you can organise your own championship. But we have the Formula 1 championship.
"We draw up the rules for that. We have been doing that for 60 years and we will continue doing so."
With a whole host of new teams having submitted entries to next year's championship, there are no shortage of competitors who can fill the grid if current teams do not wish to compete.
Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali said last week that if the conditions laid down by FOTA's nine members were not accepted, then their entries would be invalid.
Edited by Teppic on Thursday 4th June 10:28
FNG said:
Problem is, regardless of their posturing Ferrari are contracted til 2012. So I wonder whether Moseley really feels they will pull out.
Being in breach of contract it'd be very easy for him to spread his hands, express regret and say he did all he could but wouldn't accede to unreasonable demands and intransigence.
The non-specialist press tend to repeat his comments and not analyse them too closely.
The contract involved is a mystery, but it appears to be an extension of the last Concorde Agreement. That would suggest that all the previous rule change clauses remain as well as the technical veto. The failed injunction had a flip side - it recognised the veto as valid and appeared to leave the way clear for Ferrari to exercise it.Being in breach of contract it'd be very easy for him to spread his hands, express regret and say he did all he could but wouldn't accede to unreasonable demands and intransigence.
The non-specialist press tend to repeat his comments and not analyse them too closely.
Given the unilateral and irregular way Mosley has attempted to force the controversial changes through, one suspects that Ferrari could drive a coach and horses through any breach of contract action. The legal action on it's own would upset so many of F1's financial backers, that I can't see Bernie allowing it to get that far.
There is of course an alternative route for Ferrari. Given the scale of budget cutbacks mooted by Mosley, it would be very easy to farm out it's F1 operation to an independent team. Provide the chassis and engine, stipulate that the name alone can be used, not the prancing horse, nor the colour and allow an unrecognisable nondescript team to compete until the contract expires. Think 1964 United States Grand Prix - it's exactly the kind of move that Enzo Ferrari would retaliate with if pushed into this kind if corner.
That would leave a sizeable budget left to compete as the full works effort in an alternative series - be it a rival F1 one, or Le Mans/ALMS.
It's interesting that apart from Williams, FOTA has remained solid behind Ferrari. FOTA may disintegrate if Mosley and Bernie's hand is strong - so far it has hasn't, which suggests a "New Deal" being required both regulatory and commercially. If it isn't offered, there's never been a better opportunity to cut out Max and Bernie in one fell swoop.
Derek Smith said:
Mosley is not, to my mind, arguing from a position of stength. He's up for re-election soon and after his showing over recent years you've got to say that he's about as popular as Hazel Blears.
I'm no fan of Mosley or what he has done to F1, but I think you misread the situation. Mosley has, for the last 20 odd years been a keen student of Samaranch and Blatter, particularly the way they manipulated the voting structure of their respective organisations to marginalise the power houses (big in contribution, but small in number) and bring to the fore the collective voting power of the numerous but small (and easily manipulated)"make weights". This will enable him to get voted back in regardless of what the UK, Germany, France or Mercedes, Ferrari, McClaren (or even Pistonheads for that matter) think or vote.
He will promise financial help to these "emerging" motorsport nations, give pseudo-important (or even important) jobs to representatives from these countries, status in lieu of financial support, where it suits his purpose. All in the name of tying up the number of votes required. He is only interested in quantity not quality and has created a "democratic" structure that enables this control. Why else for instance, was a Kenyan appointed into the senior steward’s role a few years ago, competence or the ability to provide a block vote?
Mosley may be under pressure from a few F1 teams, most forums in the web world and I'm sure if he turned up in the spectators enclosure at a club meet everyone would tell him he's a ****. But where it matters most, in the chambers of the FIA voting room I bet he is under no pressure whatsoever (admittedly if he had a conscience he would be, but he hasn’t). When he says the majority of the FIA are asking (nay, begging) him to stay on for another term he is probably right.
All these posts about Mosley going, on his last legs, Ferrari are going to topple him etc etc mean nothing. F1, the teams and the fans are an irrelevance both in terms of his thinking and the power mechanisms. He didn't go as a result of the S&M, so he won't go now unless he wants to; and the protagonists on the other side of the fence just do not have the power to make that happen.
We can hope, but its bloody unlikely – and it certainly won’t be something in F1 that makes it happen.
nc107 said:
Derek Smith said:
Mosley is not, to my mind, arguing from a position of stength. He's up for re-election soon and after his showing over recent years you've got to say that he's about as popular as Hazel Blears.
I'm no fan of Mosley or what he has done to F1, but I think you misread the situation. Mosley has, for the last 20 odd years been a keen student of Samaranch and Blatter, particularly the way they manipulated the voting structure of their respective organisations to marginalise the power houses (big in contribution, but small in number) and bring to the fore the collective voting power of the numerous but small (and easily manipulated)"make weights". This will enable him to get voted back in regardless of what the UK, Germany, France or Mercedes, Ferrari, McClaren (or even Pistonheads for that matter) think or vote.
He will promise financial help to these "emerging" motorsport nations, give pseudo-important (or even important) jobs to representatives from these countries, status in lieu of financial support, where it suits his purpose. All in the name of tying up the number of votes required. He is only interested in quantity not quality and has created a "democratic" structure that enables this control. Why else for instance, was a Kenyan appointed into the senior steward’s role a few years ago, competence or the ability to provide a block vote?
Mosley may be under pressure from a few F1 teams, most forums in the web world and I'm sure if he turned up in the spectators enclosure at a club meet everyone would tell him he's a ****. But where it matters most, in the chambers of the FIA voting room I bet he is under no pressure whatsoever (admittedly if he had a conscience he would be, but he hasn’t). When he says the majority of the FIA are asking (nay, begging) him to stay on for another term he is probably right.
All these posts about Mosley going, on his last legs, Ferrari are going to topple him etc etc mean nothing. F1, the teams and the fans are an irrelevance both in terms of his thinking and the power mechanisms. He didn't go as a result of the S&M, so he won't go now unless he wants to; and the protagonists on the other side of the fence just do not have the power to make that happen.
We can hope, but its bloody unlikely – and it certainly won’t be something in F1 that makes it happen.
It would, of course, suit no one. However, if the Americans and Germans are thwarted a second time in trying to out Mosley then I don't think it will sit well with them.
The FiA exists because it is funded. If the money goes, then so does the FiA. Its legal status exists because the FiA exists. If the rumours are correct, then Max Rufus has already upset BMW. Bite, hand, feed.
I see Rufus as the weakest he's been. A lot depends on Bernie of course and he's just got the one interest, Bernie. A miffed Ferrari is not what he wants. If Max doesn't do what Bernie wants then I could see the rift between them becoming decree nisi. In any fight over access to the children, I can see Bernie winning.
I can't help but think that what happens in the next two or three weeks will be critical to F1. It seems probable that Mosley will either not put himself up for re-election or he will be unapposed. The only question that holds any real interest to me is whether F1 will be too badly damaged by Mosley's attentions to survive as we know it.
Whe have had two of the most exciting season ever in the sport and this years, whilst it might well be the runaway victory for Button that most people - including me - are predicting, the battle for the dregs is fascinating. Yet Mosley wants to change it all.
I think he's a genius. (Let's see: does genius mean self-centred, vindictive and closed to ideas?)
The problem I foresee with the "don't bite the hand that feeds" argument is this:
Hs re-election depends on number of votes not promises of money. Any anti-vote from one of the bigger countries will be man marked by promising the Cook Islands representative a new set of traffic lights.
He will win the votes easily I suspect (if he decides to stand), so what are the few who provide the funding expected to do?
The FIA is largely dependent on donations from the industry (automobile not motor racing) to function, as any industry body is, but in return represents that industry in many ways to many other bodies. That gives it (and him) mucho controlo.
Given the industry body (FIA) not only creates the standards for legislation and comparative tests such as NCAP etc, they are also the enforcement body I believe (both for Europe anyway). If these countries were to withdraw one can imagine the risk they would run of not being able to sell cars through not being able to get them certified (rumours of the BMW incident provide a precedent for this). I think the best they can do is vote against and make some noises and let the result run its course, but they will be acutely aware that threatening to withdraw (and take their money with them) is a bit of a none starter. Any other approach would involve setting up a new body, and imagine how messy that would be.
The elections come too soon for the US to get excited about - they are just concerned with survival at the moment so I doubt we'll see any muscle throwing from them.
This battle was lost years ago when he changed the voting system and filled the room with his henchmen. Unfortunately the big funders where asleep at the time (isn't hindsight wonderful!) by allowing this structural change to happen and then compounded this by allowing him control over the rules that govern their industry. Since then they have always had one ball in the vice and he can tighten it at will: and the fact that some of these manufacturers are in F1 and now and again attempt to make his life difficult via F1 means he probably never leaves the office without the vice.
I think the issue that F1 should be focusing on (and I agree 100% with your sentiments) is "how do we get control of F1 away from the FIA" not "how do we dispose of the FIA President" because F1 is not in a position to influence that.
As you say - a very cleaver bloke. Not very comforting though is it.
Hs re-election depends on number of votes not promises of money. Any anti-vote from one of the bigger countries will be man marked by promising the Cook Islands representative a new set of traffic lights.
He will win the votes easily I suspect (if he decides to stand), so what are the few who provide the funding expected to do?
The FIA is largely dependent on donations from the industry (automobile not motor racing) to function, as any industry body is, but in return represents that industry in many ways to many other bodies. That gives it (and him) mucho controlo.
Given the industry body (FIA) not only creates the standards for legislation and comparative tests such as NCAP etc, they are also the enforcement body I believe (both for Europe anyway). If these countries were to withdraw one can imagine the risk they would run of not being able to sell cars through not being able to get them certified (rumours of the BMW incident provide a precedent for this). I think the best they can do is vote against and make some noises and let the result run its course, but they will be acutely aware that threatening to withdraw (and take their money with them) is a bit of a none starter. Any other approach would involve setting up a new body, and imagine how messy that would be.
The elections come too soon for the US to get excited about - they are just concerned with survival at the moment so I doubt we'll see any muscle throwing from them.
This battle was lost years ago when he changed the voting system and filled the room with his henchmen. Unfortunately the big funders where asleep at the time (isn't hindsight wonderful!) by allowing this structural change to happen and then compounded this by allowing him control over the rules that govern their industry. Since then they have always had one ball in the vice and he can tighten it at will: and the fact that some of these manufacturers are in F1 and now and again attempt to make his life difficult via F1 means he probably never leaves the office without the vice.
I think the issue that F1 should be focusing on (and I agree 100% with your sentiments) is "how do we get control of F1 away from the FIA" not "how do we dispose of the FIA President" because F1 is not in a position to influence that.
As you say - a very cleaver bloke. Not very comforting though is it.
Edited by nc107 on Thursday 4th June 12:51
Edited by nc107 on Thursday 4th June 12:54
Am I the only one who's now lost count of how many teams have submitted their entry for 2010. I keep hearing of new names every day, so is the FIA going to grant all these new teams an entry, leaving everyone but Ferrari and Williams out in the cold?
Edited by motormania on Thursday 4th June 12:57
motormania said:
Am I the only one who's now lost count of how many teams have submitted their entry for 2010. I keep hearing of new names every day, so is the FIA going to grant all these new teams an entry, leaving everyone but Ferrari and Williams out in the cold?
Good question. Pitpass predict 'a bombshell of seismic proportions' come June 12th and come what may, that is exactly what is going to happen. Max is going way beyond calling their bluff and is likely to post up the 2010 team entries list without any of the FOTA teams (i.e. they are excluded from the possibility of joining next year's grid). Unless something drastic and unprecedented happens between now and then, that's exactly what he'll do (with the notable exception of Ferrari of course). He pretty much has to now, thanks to the position he's manouvered himself into.Edited by motormania on Thursday 4th June 12:57
Edited by Flat_Steve on Thursday 4th June 13:55
what i have found quite concerning is that if the pitpass article is correct, and 'conditional' entries are not legal, and max mosely was the one that advised the teams to submit these conditional entries, then he has basically just done a bit of trickery and given himself the option to kick them out of F1.
skinny said:
what i have found quite concerning is that if the pitpass article is correct, and 'conditional' entries are not legal, and max mosely was the one that advised the teams to submit these conditional entries, then he has basically just done a bit of trickery and given himself the option to kick them out of F1.
The idea that a conditional entry was invalid is just typical FIA bluster. The 29th May deadline was unnecessary, arbitrary and unprecedented. The World Motor Sport Council can now change the terms to whatever they like. FIA rules have all the soundness and permanence of wet cardboard. On 12th June they can make their acceptances "conditional" too, and just keep negotiating.I still think it's very odd that the FIA is effectively the referree for F1 - they administer the rules.
The real power is the teams.
It's only because Max and Bernie put together the current F1 deal is that they have any power
The teams have the real power since the concorde agreement finished.
And it makes perfect sense for the teams to stick 2 fingers up at Max and setup their own race administration. At the end of the day it's not that difficult to set up 18 races !
The real power is the teams.
It's only because Max and Bernie put together the current F1 deal is that they have any power
The teams have the real power since the concorde agreement finished.
And it makes perfect sense for the teams to stick 2 fingers up at Max and setup their own race administration. At the end of the day it's not that difficult to set up 18 races !
flemke said:
skinny said:
what i have found quite concerning is that if the pitpass article is correct, and 'conditional' entries are not legal, and max mosely was the one that advised the teams to submit these conditional entries, then he has basically just done a bit of trickery and given himself the option to kick them out of F1.
The idea that a conditional entry was invalid is just typical FIA bluster. The 29th May deadline was unnecessary, arbitrary and unprecedented. The World Motor Sport Council can now change the terms to whatever they like. FIA rules have all the soundness and permanence of wet cardboard. On 12th June they can make their acceptances "conditional" too, and just keep negotiating.nc107 said:
The problem I foresee with the "don't bite the hand that feeds" argument is this:
Hs re-election depends on number of votes not promises of money. Any anti-vote from one of the bigger countries will be man marked by promising the Cook Islands representative a new set of traffic lights.
He will win the votes easily I suspect (if he decides to stand), so what are the few who provide the funding expected to do?
The FIA is largely dependent on donations from the industry (automobile not motor racing) to function, as any industry body is, but in return represents that industry in many ways to many other bodies. That gives it (and him) mucho controlo.
Given the industry body (FIA) not only creates the standards for legislation and comparative tests such as NCAP etc, they are also the enforcement body I believe (both for Europe anyway). If these countries were to withdraw one can imagine the risk they would run of not being able to sell cars through not being able to get them certified (rumours of the BMW incident provide a precedent for this). I think the best they can do is vote against and make some noises and let the result run its course, but they will be acutely aware that threatening to withdraw (and take their money with them) is a bit of a none starter. Any other approach would involve setting up a new body, and imagine how messy that would be.
The elections come too soon for the US to get excited about - they are just concerned with survival at the moment so I doubt we'll see any muscle throwing from them.
This battle was lost years ago when he changed the voting system and filled the room with his henchmen. Unfortunately the big funders where asleep at the time (isn't hindsight wonderful!) by allowing this structural change to happen and then compounded this by allowing him control over the rules that govern their industry. Since then they have always had one ball in the vice and he can tighten it at will: and the fact that some of these manufacturers are in F1 and now and again attempt to make his life difficult via F1 means he probably never leaves the office without the vice.
I think the issue that F1 should be focusing on (and I agree 100% with your sentiments) is "how do we get control of F1 away from the FIA" not "how do we dispose of the FIA President" because F1 is not in a position to influence that.
As you say - a very cleaver bloke. Not very comforting though is it.
The FiA exists only because the motor manufacturers allow it to. They've farmed out the regulatory process to a unit which, to an extent, they control. Or did control. Any other unit could take over. Indeed there is nothing to stop there being an EU regulatory body separate from just about everyone else. If they form one with the USA then they would control world car regs to a great extent. My understanding is that many indegenous models of cars do not comply with the FiA regs but are still sold in the domestic market and there is nothing the FiA can do about it.Hs re-election depends on number of votes not promises of money. Any anti-vote from one of the bigger countries will be man marked by promising the Cook Islands representative a new set of traffic lights.
He will win the votes easily I suspect (if he decides to stand), so what are the few who provide the funding expected to do?
The FIA is largely dependent on donations from the industry (automobile not motor racing) to function, as any industry body is, but in return represents that industry in many ways to many other bodies. That gives it (and him) mucho controlo.
Given the industry body (FIA) not only creates the standards for legislation and comparative tests such as NCAP etc, they are also the enforcement body I believe (both for Europe anyway). If these countries were to withdraw one can imagine the risk they would run of not being able to sell cars through not being able to get them certified (rumours of the BMW incident provide a precedent for this). I think the best they can do is vote against and make some noises and let the result run its course, but they will be acutely aware that threatening to withdraw (and take their money with them) is a bit of a none starter. Any other approach would involve setting up a new body, and imagine how messy that would be.
The elections come too soon for the US to get excited about - they are just concerned with survival at the moment so I doubt we'll see any muscle throwing from them.
This battle was lost years ago when he changed the voting system and filled the room with his henchmen. Unfortunately the big funders where asleep at the time (isn't hindsight wonderful!) by allowing this structural change to happen and then compounded this by allowing him control over the rules that govern their industry. Since then they have always had one ball in the vice and he can tighten it at will: and the fact that some of these manufacturers are in F1 and now and again attempt to make his life difficult via F1 means he probably never leaves the office without the vice.
I think the issue that F1 should be focusing on (and I agree 100% with your sentiments) is "how do we get control of F1 away from the FIA" not "how do we dispose of the FIA President" because F1 is not in a position to influence that.
As you say - a very cleaver bloke. Not very comforting though is it.
The problem is that the FiA gives equal status to the yak and trolley national motoring club of a country ending in -stan as the RAC and in some ways this is a good thing as it stops the most powerful countries dictating the rules and regs. But, as we have been told, some chap from a country with no motor manufacturing at all decides to organise a support group and Mossy gets voted back in.
It's a bit like rugby union. The 5'8" fly half will not be tackled by a prop 'energetically'. That is accepted. But if the fly half starts to act like he's 6'5", ignoring his status, then that's how he'll be tackled. And this is what might happen with these small countries. A vote for Mossy might well be a vote for the wilderness. The USA might well go in full-bloodied leaving the emerging eastern nations without anywhere to sell their cars except their neghbours who are trying to sell their cars back. Whilst I do not remember the '30s, this is similart to what happened then.
The USA and, to a great extent, the EU motor manufacturers might well think that a little protectionalism would not go amiss. It would be easy enough to exclude non EU/USA cars from the biggest markets by starting up their own form of FiA.
I would think that the biggest threat to Mossy does not come from his imept handling of the current crisis in F1. Nor, come to think of it, the way he's run rallying or F2 etc, but from the way he stuck two fingers up to the motor manufacturers when he went for his own-rules vote of confidence.
I know you and I disagree about Mossy's ability to run motorsport but what I would point out is that the FiA controls sports car racing, rallying and F2 as well. Want to know how safe F1 is in the hands of Mossy? Then look to F2 and rallying.
And sorry to be a bit obscure. I was bing rather ironic when I said Mossy was a genius. Under the control of Bernie he was a good little lap-dog. But once he got ideas above his station and ability it all began to fall apart. The indy FiAsco was a case in point. Bernie wanted a compromise that would give the spectators a show, Mossy went for a one car race. That, to me, is the extent of his genius.
skinny said:
flemke said:
skinny said:
what i have found quite concerning is that if the pitpass article is correct, and 'conditional' entries are not legal, and max mosely was the one that advised the teams to submit these conditional entries, then he has basically just done a bit of trickery and given himself the option to kick them out of F1.
The idea that a conditional entry was invalid is just typical FIA bluster. The 29th May deadline was unnecessary, arbitrary and unprecedented. The World Motor Sport Council can now change the terms to whatever they like. FIA rules have all the soundness and permanence of wet cardboard. On 12th June they can make their acceptances "conditional" too, and just keep negotiating.The thing is, until a few months ago there was no FOTA, or equivalent, that was united and (to a degree that we don't exactly know) determined to reset the balance. Before, all Mosley had to do was to pit the independents against the big teams, implicitly threaten with unrelated penalties, or play the Ferrari card. Plus, he's got to be on less certain ground vis a vis re-election than he's ever been, and FOG's position is weaker than it's been for many years.
My point was more that they can make up the deadlines however they like, but it is very unlikely that this battle, maybe war, will be decided on a technicality.
skinny said:
flemke said:
skinny said:
what i have found quite concerning is that if the pitpass article is correct, and 'conditional' entries are not legal, and max mosely was the one that advised the teams to submit these conditional entries, then he has basically just done a bit of trickery and given himself the option to kick them out of F1.
The idea that a conditional entry was invalid is just typical FIA bluster. The 29th May deadline was unnecessary, arbitrary and unprecedented. The World Motor Sport Council can now change the terms to whatever they like. FIA rules have all the soundness and permanence of wet cardboard. On 12th June they can make their acceptances "conditional" too, and just keep negotiating.http://www.grandprix.com/ft/ft00069.html
Mosley said:
"As a direct result of that championships are badly run. A short example is the Sportscar World Championship. At the beginning of this year the date for the closing of entries was changed. That immediately put two of the teams out of business. This was done without any consultation at all.
'There was then the opening up of Le Mans to anyone even if they weren't part of the world championship. That was done by telex vote of the FISA World Council, without any consultation with the Sportscar Commission. That was such an obvious mistake that it was corrected a week later."
I really can't see Bernie being happy with Spanky ruining his championship, can you?
"Roll up, roll up, watch Williams take on Prodrive and a load of people you've never heard of before. At £140 a ticket. Hang on, where are you going? Come back!"
I'm sure that Bernie will be applying mucho pressure on Spanky to relent, or find a workable compromise that will allow the FOTA teams back in for 2010. Otherwise, his share-holders are suddenly unable to service their debts and what happens to F1 then? Maybe Bernie will offer them 50% of their funds back in return for 100% of their shares.
I am sure that Spanky has pulled a lot of favours in by getting some of these teams to publicly declare their applications for a space, in order to let FOTA know that they don't hold all the cards. Problem being that these teams don't have the same attraction or kudos as current F1 teams. Maybe they don't have the necessary experience either, who knows? I fully expect that of the 9(?) current applications, at least 5 of them won't pass due diligence, or any common sense measures of long term prospects. It's Spanky trying to shore up his increasingly weak position and nothing else.
I hope...
"Roll up, roll up, watch Williams take on Prodrive and a load of people you've never heard of before. At £140 a ticket. Hang on, where are you going? Come back!"
I'm sure that Bernie will be applying mucho pressure on Spanky to relent, or find a workable compromise that will allow the FOTA teams back in for 2010. Otherwise, his share-holders are suddenly unable to service their debts and what happens to F1 then? Maybe Bernie will offer them 50% of their funds back in return for 100% of their shares.
I am sure that Spanky has pulled a lot of favours in by getting some of these teams to publicly declare their applications for a space, in order to let FOTA know that they don't hold all the cards. Problem being that these teams don't have the same attraction or kudos as current F1 teams. Maybe they don't have the necessary experience either, who knows? I fully expect that of the 9(?) current applications, at least 5 of them won't pass due diligence, or any common sense measures of long term prospects. It's Spanky trying to shore up his increasingly weak position and nothing else.
I hope...
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