KERS, Why isn't anyone suing the FIA?

[Adrian W]

The FIA published the rules, saying the teams may use KERS this year, but in 2010 they will have to, now they have changed their minds and pulled the plug.

Considering all the talk about reducing costs, and the huge sums invested in KERS technology why aren't any of the teams suing the FIA?

[elster]

As they have to do development on non fossil fuelled technology.

This was not brought in by the FIA.

[zac510]

I thought it was the teams themselves that got KERS cancelled, not the FIA.

[elster]

zac510 said:

I thought it was the teams themselves that got KERS cancelled, not the FIA.

It is

[BoRED S2upid]

Ferrari are talking about bringing some sort of KERS out on their next generation of cars so its not going to be all money lost all those multi millions of development will have some future use.

[elster]

BoRED S2upid said:

Ferrari are talking about bringing some sort of KERS out on their next generation of cars so its not going to be all money lost all those multi millions of development will have some future use.

I thought it was more of a novelty for a few special editions.

Mentioned in IET that it will be used in heavy diseasel machinery.

[fulham911club]

elster said:

BoRED S2upid said:

Ferrari are talking about bringing some sort of KERS out on their next generation of cars so its not going to be all money lost all those multi millions of development will have some future use.

I thought it was more of a novelty for a few special editions.

Mentioned in IET that it will be used in heavy diseasel machinery.

Not exactly the same but Audi use the energy lost in braking to re-charge the battery...

[zac510]

If Ferrari can use it properly on their road cars it will bring down the 'average emissions' across their models and hence bring them back into EU legality.

Just like solar, wind, etc, there's nothing wrong with KERS in principle, it's just not cheap enough yet

[elster]

zac510 said:

If Ferrari can use it properly on their road cars it will bring down the 'average emissions' across their models and hence bring them back into EU legality.

Just like solar, wind, etc, there's nothing wrong with KERS in principle, it's just not cheap enough yet

I don't really see that as Ferraris aim.

You compared it to solar and wind. So your arguememnt is flawed, there is not a great deal right involved in solar and wind power, they are barney useless. KERS is actually quite an efficient way of doing things. However for your average car there is just not enough Kinetic Energy. This is why the application will be used by heavy machinery, or something fast. You need either the weight or the speed to do this.

[Alfie Noakes]

fulham911club said:

Not exactly the same but Audi use the energy lost in braking to re-charge the battery...

How do they do that?

[anonymous-user]

elster said:

zac510 said:

If Ferrari can use it properly on their road cars it will bring down the 'average emissions' across their models and hence bring them back into EU legality.

Just like solar, wind, etc, there's nothing wrong with KERS in principle, it's just not cheap enough yet

I don't really see that as Ferraris aim.

You compared it to solar and wind. So your arguememnt is flawed, there is not a great deal right involved in solar and wind power, they are barney useless. KERS is actually quite an efficient way of doing things. However for your average car there is just not enough Kinetic Energy. This is why the application will be used by heavy machinery, or something fast. You need either the weight or the speed to do this.

Actually Ferrari are, IIRC, working on a KERS system for the 450 replacement or maybe even for a hybrid development of the F450 itself.

[RichBurley]

Alfie Noakes said:

fulham911club said:

Not exactly the same but Audi use the energy lost in braking to re-charge the battery...

How do they do that?

And doesn't the alternator in a normal road car sufficient deal with this issue?

[ridds]

Yes but the alternator is using fuel.

Using the brakes converts kinetic energy back into useful electrical energy that you can use again. Rather than converting it all into heat and wasting it.

F1 KERS systems have little relation to road systems and Ferrari are only investigating it for the road cars as a way to get around emissions targets and getting nailed by EU fines on pollution.

[Alfie Noakes]

ridds said:

Using the brakes converts kinetic energy back into useful electrical energy that you can use again. Rather than converting it all into heat and wasting it.

How do they do that?

[ridds]

Sorry didn't explain that very well did I.

New cars with "regenerative braking" can use either a large intergrated motor/generator within the flywheel or an alternator. There is then a control strategy built into the engine mapping/software that will put extra loading on these items when decelerating. This increases engine braking which inturn is used to charge batteries.

[elster]

garyhun said:

elster said:

zac510 said:

If Ferrari can use it properly on their road cars it will bring down the 'average emissions' across their models and hence bring them back into EU legality.

Just like solar, wind, etc, there's nothing wrong with KERS in principle, it's just not cheap enough yet

I don't really see that as Ferraris aim.

You compared it to solar and wind. So your arguememnt is flawed, there is not a great deal right involved in solar and wind power, they are barney useless. KERS is actually quite an efficient way of doing things. However for your average car there is just not enough Kinetic Energy. This is why the application will be used by heavy machinery, or something fast. You need either the weight or the speed to do this.

Actually Ferrari are, IIRC, working on a KERS system for the 450 replacement or maybe even for a hybrid development of the F450 itself.

I know they are planning on doing a special edition, for a 2012 launch.

Have you anymore details, as everything I have been told so far has been it wont be brought into mainstream usage.

[ridds]

Ferrari have filed for patents on hybrid systems (thread on it on here the other day). They were fag packet sketches but shows they are looking at something.

[peanutjb]

ridds said:

Sorry didn't explain that very well did I.

New cars with "regenerative braking" can use either a large intergrated motor/generator within the flywheel or an alternator. There is then a control strategy built into the engine mapping/software that will put extra loading on these items when decelerating. This increases engine braking which inturn is used to charge batteries.

TBH what Audi have sounds more like what BMW are doing with their 'efficient dynamics'. I.e. the altenator is only engaged when the vehicle is deccelerating or when then battery needs charging. They're known as 'micro hybrids' where as what you've described is leaning towards the 'mild-hybrid' side

[anonymous-user]

elster said:

garyhun said:

elster said:

zac510 said:

If Ferrari can use it properly on their road cars it will bring down the 'average emissions' across their models and hence bring them back into EU legality.

Just like solar, wind, etc, there's nothing wrong with KERS in principle, it's just not cheap enough yet

I don't really see that as Ferraris aim.

You compared it to solar and wind. So your arguememnt is flawed, there is not a great deal right involved in solar and wind power, they are barney useless. KERS is actually quite an efficient way of doing things. However for your average car there is just not enough Kinetic Energy. This is why the application will be used by heavy machinery, or something fast. You need either the weight or the speed to do this.

Actually Ferrari are, IIRC, working on a KERS system for the 450 replacement or maybe even for a hybrid development of the F450 itself.

I know they are planning on doing a special edition, for a 2012 launch.

Have you anymore details, as everything I have been told so far has been it wont be brought into mainstream usage.

Nothing more unfortunately - just what I've read in various mags.

[ridds]

peanutjb said:

ridds said:

Sorry didn't explain that very well did I.

New cars with "regenerative braking" can use either a large intergrated motor/generator within the flywheel or an alternator. There is then a control strategy built into the engine mapping/software that will put extra loading on these items when decelerating. This increases engine braking which inturn is used to charge batteries.

TBH what Audi have sounds more like what BMW are doing with their 'efficient dynamics'. I.e. the altenator is only engaged when the vehicle is deccelerating or when then battery needs charging. They're known as 'micro hybrids' where as what you've described is leaning towards the 'mild-hybrid' side

With all the systems on cars these day do you think the alternator could be shutdown and only used when braking etc? I think it could just be more eco friendly blurb from the manufacturers.

The electrical load for electric PAS, headlights, ECU's, fuel pumps, HVAC, etc is massive these days.