The Donington Debenture scheme
Discussion
What are people's thoughts on this?
Reading on JamesAllen this morning he says lots will be available from £1200 to £4000, so quite small money really. Obviously, the returns and benefits offered have not been announced yet but it leaves me curious to know the details at least.
For example, £1200 to receive a return on the money and hospitality doesn't seem too bad to me.
I'm not sure if I'd rather put money into Silverstone instead though.
Reading on JamesAllen this morning he says lots will be available from £1200 to £4000, so quite small money really. Obviously, the returns and benefits offered have not been announced yet but it leaves me curious to know the details at least.
For example, £1200 to receive a return on the money and hospitality doesn't seem too bad to me.
I'm not sure if I'd rather put money into Silverstone instead though.
stifler said:
There is no way that I would give any money to Simon Gillett. No chance. I would struggle to hand money over to him if he held my daughter hostage. I would not and do not trust him as far as I could throw him.
Bring on the Indian GP.
Forgive my ignorance, but I'm assuming Simon Gillett did something to upset a lot of motorsport people at some point in the past.Bring on the Indian GP.
What was it?
Rude-boy said:
Thanks Rude-boy. I think that's put a nail in that coffin! Ironically he owes money to Haymarket according to the pitpass article!
fivesixseven8 said:
What are people's thoughts on this?
Reading on JamesAllen this morning he says lots will be available from £1200 to £4000, so quite small money really. .
Not a single penny of mine for many reasons including those linked to by others. Reading on JamesAllen this morning he says lots will be available from £1200 to £4000, so quite small money really. .
Apparently some fundraising schemes can bring in a lot of cash if you ask a lot of people for what appears to be a small amount of money.
10 Pence Short said:
stifler said:
There is no way that I would give any money to Simon Gillett. No chance. I would struggle to hand money over to him if he held my daughter hostage. I would not and do not trust him as far as I could throw him.
Bring on the Indian GP.
Forgive my ignorance, but I'm assuming Simon Gillett did something to upset a lot of motorsport people at some point in the past.Bring on the Indian GP.
What was it?
A lot of people owed a lot of money. And dodgy paperwork too.
It's highly likely that you can make up whatever you want from Companys House submissions.
For example the Directors resignation form has two dates. One for the date of resignation and another for the date of submission. It's quite possible for these two dates to be six months apart.
I'm not saying he's a saint but it's worth remembering that Christian Sylt used to write for Tom Rubython.
For example the Directors resignation form has two dates. One for the date of resignation and another for the date of submission. It's quite possible for these two dates to be six months apart.
I'm not saying he's a saint but it's worth remembering that Christian Sylt used to write for Tom Rubython.
I must say that regardless of the rights and wrongs of that particular venture, the Chris Sylt article reads like a hatchet job.
There's no attempt to declare, for example, just how much Haymarket and Sparco are owed. For the type of company involved and the products and services offered by those particular creditors, I am willing to wager that these amounts are pretty trivial. But stating the pounds and pence would perhaps weaken the shock-horror-disgusting-conman factor that Sylt is obviously aiming for.
I also think that even if Gillett did leave the company 6 months before it liquidated, a s
tload can happen in a company in 6 months, especially without the checks and balances that a second director can bring to the management of it. He could well have left because he realised his business partner's intentions weren't sound, or it had no legs in his opinion.
I don't know the guy - some on here appear to - but I do think that the Pitpass article is a very one-eyed look at one side of the story.
There's no attempt to declare, for example, just how much Haymarket and Sparco are owed. For the type of company involved and the products and services offered by those particular creditors, I am willing to wager that these amounts are pretty trivial. But stating the pounds and pence would perhaps weaken the shock-horror-disgusting-conman factor that Sylt is obviously aiming for.
I also think that even if Gillett did leave the company 6 months before it liquidated, a s
tload can happen in a company in 6 months, especially without the checks and balances that a second director can bring to the management of it. He could well have left because he realised his business partner's intentions weren't sound, or it had no legs in his opinion.I don't know the guy - some on here appear to - but I do think that the Pitpass article is a very one-eyed look at one side of the story.
So what is £1200 going to get you in his 'scheme'? Probably a plastic seat at the back of one of the restricted-view grandstands with your name on it for you and your bottom to use for all 17 years! 
Work out the figures - he needs at least £80M, probably more (has he never watched 'Grand Designs'?) So he'd need rather a lot of £1200-£4000 investments, even with the bigger buy-ins from that long queue of corporates desperate to spend all that spare cash they have right now.
You may as well withdraw the money from the bank in £5 notes, invite a few friends round, get a few cold beers out then carefully arrange the banknotes on your barbecue in a nice pile, pour some lighter fluid over it all and then toss in a match.
You could even toast some marshmallows or crumpets in front of the flames.
This would give me much more pleasure than handing a cheque to Gillett, who would spend it by moving more earth around, laying some dodgy Tarmac and fending off his growing band of creditors.
No thanks
Work out the figures - he needs at least £80M, probably more (has he never watched 'Grand Designs'?) So he'd need rather a lot of £1200-£4000 investments, even with the bigger buy-ins from that long queue of corporates desperate to spend all that spare cash they have right now.
You may as well withdraw the money from the bank in £5 notes, invite a few friends round, get a few cold beers out then carefully arrange the banknotes on your barbecue in a nice pile, pour some lighter fluid over it all and then toss in a match.
You could even toast some marshmallows or crumpets in front of the flames.
This would give me much more pleasure than handing a cheque to Gillett, who would spend it by moving more earth around, laying some dodgy Tarmac and fending off his growing band of creditors.
No thanks
fivesixseven8 said:
Rude-boy said:
Thanks Rude-boy. I think that's put a nail in that coffin! Ironically he owes money to Haymarket according to the pitpass article!
There may well be reasons not to invest in this debenture scheme; that article, however, is not one of them!
skwdenyer said:
fivesixseven8 said:
Rude-boy said:
Thanks Rude-boy. I think that's put a nail in that coffin! Ironically he owes money to Haymarket according to the pitpass article!
There may well be reasons not to invest in this debenture scheme; that article, however, is not one of them!
Haymarket and lawyers "should have better credit control than to lend (£200,000) to a company with no business plan and no funding", as you say.
ISTM that motor sports fans are now being solicited to lend tens of millions to a company with no business plan and no funding - also known as "this debenture scheme"!
Okay, they have a sort of business plan, but it's a daft one, so actually no plan at all might be better. They lack funding, and they're being run by the same person who appears to have been behind the previous failure.
I’m sure you know Madoff’s MO better than I and the Wikipedia article was too long and detailed for me on a hot day like this.
But if you were to compare Maddof with Edison we might conclude that some people learn from their mistakes and some don't (and that assumes Madoff has had the opportunity).
So has Gillett learned from his mistake? Only time will tell. But as I am sure you have seen it written “Past performance is not an indication of future performance”.
But if you were to compare Maddof with Edison we might conclude that some people learn from their mistakes and some don't (and that assumes Madoff has had the opportunity).
So has Gillett learned from his mistake? Only time will tell. But as I am sure you have seen it written “Past performance is not an indication of future performance”.
flemke said:
skwdenyer said:
fivesixseven8 said:
Rude-boy said:
Thanks Rude-boy. I think that's put a nail in that coffin! Ironically he owes money to Haymarket according to the pitpass article!
There may well be reasons not to invest in this debenture scheme; that article, however, is not one of them!
Haymarket and lawyers "should have better credit control than to lend (£200,000) to a company with no business plan and no funding", as you say.
ISTM that motor sports fans are now being solicited to lend tens of millions to a company with no business plan and no funding - also known as "this debenture scheme"!
Okay, they have a sort of business plan, but it's a daft one, so actually no plan at all might be better. They lack funding, and they're being run by the same person who appears to have been behind the previous failure.
My understanding was that businesses who were interested in corporate hospitality were being asked to stump up first and foremost?
I don't understand the detail of the debenture plan so could someone explain to me why it's considered to be flaky / shonky / unreliable / daft?
ING are on board and seem to think it's perfectly reasonable and in line with other schemes raising similar money for other sports, so I am a little bit mystified as to why it's taken to be so risky in this instance.
FNG said:
ING are on board and seem to think it's perfectly reasonable and in line with other schemes raising similar money for other sports, so I am a little bit mystified as to why it's taken to be so risky in this instance.
Q: What would happen to the money coming in from the early investors if the required amount can't be raised in time?A: They'd be lucky to get much of their original investment back.
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