F1 race pace - an observation

[Get Karter]

The Brawn comment on Rubens best lap being 11th on the grid got me thinking - how did he qualify 2nd (on race fuel) and only manage 11th in the race (on race fuel).

The stats showed:
Rubens Barrichello:-
quali 1:32.357
best lap 1:34.676

So the best he could manage was 2.32 secs slower than his quali lap.

So I thought, is this Rubens-specific, or a general pattern?

Here are the top 8 (excl. Lewis Hamilton, who was driving a damaged car, therefore not an accurate measure)
Driver's fastest lap:-

Webber 1.77 secs slower than quali
Barric 2.32 secs slower than quali
Button 1.98 secs slower than quali
Vettel 1.61 secs slower than quali
Kovali 1.67 secs slower than quali
Sutil 1.05 secs slower than quali
Massa 0.12 secs QUICKER than quali

As the conditions were generally described as better on the Sunday than Saturday, adn as Massa showed, it CAN be done - why are there such massively slower lap times during a race?

This suggests drivers are not pushing as hard as they can. But that would be ridiculous, as at certain times (near close competitor's pit stop) they are surely looking to gain those extra seconds that are available in quali?

(Remember these are fastest race lap times....the average will be slower still)

[FourWheelDrift]

If they go flat out (as in qualifying) in a race lap after lap the tyre will wear quicker. This means they either lose more time on worn tyres later in the stint or have to pit again, earlier than planned. Massa was fuelled up heavily in qualifying so with light fuel at the end of one of his runs he was able to lap faster than qualifying.

[NeilBeforeZod]

You will probably also find that in qualifying they absolutely monster every braking zone, corner and kerb, as well as maxing out the engine where they can. If they do that in the race, they'd either break something or chuck it at the scenery.

Doing something for one lap means you can do this and maybe get away with it. Doing it for 2 hours is a different story, mistakes would be inevitable.

[-Z-]

Yeah but the op isn't talking about doing it for 2 hours, he's talking about fastest laps. Maybe the simple explanation is simply that conditions weren't as good on Sunday when considered with all other factors.

Also most are setting their best times on in/out laps and that wouldn't show on the fastest laps board.

You need to do the same analysis for previous races.

[Hut49]

But wasn't the track temperature +12 deg C above that during quali? So the OP's point is surely valid since there was more "mechanical grip" as MB enjoys saying.

[lewis1]

in a 2hour race, do they have much to gain by putting 2 or three laps together at quali pace knowing its going to route a set of tyres?
to finish first, first you have to finish

[Bombjack]

Don't forget that fresh tyres are at their best for only a lap or two - very few drivers will be inclined to go hard on them during this period as the car is by definition heavy and the risk of graining them and ruining the entire stint is increased.

[Get Karter]

-Z- said:

Also most are setting their best times on in/out laps and that wouldn't show on the fastest laps board.

Good point.
But surely two or three quick laps prior to a pit stop would give greater possibilities (and also give us a closer-to-quali fastest lap time as a by-product!)

-Z- said:

You need to do the same analysis for previous races.

I thought that too....but it'll need to wait.


I realise that cars and tyres must be nursed to a degree, but going around at 95% of quali pace for 95% of the race, with the occasional 97% 'push' (even when fuel load is down to vapours, versus quali load of 15-20+ laps) seems a shame for such intensively engineered machines not to be used to their potential, except in quali.

[lewis1]

two or three laps prior would be great, but the tyres are normally shot by then so they can push but still not as hard as they did in quali

[The Wookie]

Don't forget that by the time the car gets to a pit stop there will be plenty of laps under the tyres and they'll be giving significantly less grip.

Tyre Management is part of the 'art' in quite a few high level racing series. You've only got to look at the lap times in the Carrera Cup GB to see that fastest race times are a second or two off of quali times as the tyres have to last half an hour

Also, you would be amazed at how much a track can vary in grip, and not always intuitively. Not so long ago I tested on a Friday at Oulton to find that the next day I was two seconds quicker. I thought I was heading for pole (I was as quick as the pole time from last year in an identical car), only to find myself 10th or 11th! Everyone else had gone 2.5 seconds quicker!

[911mot]

I think all the rubber got washed off on Sunday morning too, so that won't help

Edited by 911mot on Tuesday 14th July 18:40

[NewMetalSystem]

The thing with Massa is that he wasn't exactly driving a light car in Qualifying, so as he got down from 30 laps to around 5 laps of fuel, he'd be going quicker really without trying.
With hindsight, I'm sure the Brawn's would have gone a lot heavier and two-stopped. The gap between fifth and sixth was 1.2 seconds, so they'd only really have dropped two places, and made up more than that in the race.

[mft]

Get Karter said:

As the conditions were generally described as better on the Sunday than Saturday, adn as Massa showed, it CAN be done - why are there such massively slower lap times during a race?

One of the few interesting parts of Clarkson's interview with Schumacher on Top Gear recently was Schumacher's reference to the time Brawn told him that they needed 20 qualifying-pace laps, one after another. Hungary, IIRC.

So even the great Schumacher didn't do full pace race laps, unless absolutely vital.

[Get Karter]

For a larger statistical population, I have looked at 3 other dry races from this season. Bahrain, Turkey and Spain.
Turkey is the fly in the ointment for the basic theories espoused by posters in the thread above.

Drivers in quali order
+ = fastest lap slower than quali lap
- = fastest lap faster than quali lap

Bahrain
Driver Difference
JT +1.13
TG +0.86
SV +0.74
JB +0.54
LH +0.72


Turkey
Driver Difference
SV -0.69
JB -0.84
RB -0.05
MW -0.80
JT -0.80


Spain
Driver Difference
JB +2.37
SV +2.43
RB +2.00
FM +2.16
MW +2.06


Is Turkey less hard on cars?
Were conditions hugely better on race day in Turkey?

Is Spain particularly hard on tyres?
Were conditions worse on race day in Spain?

[-Z-]

Based on the above I would say it tends to disprove the "drivers holding back" theory as a sole explanation because I doubt they would all do it in unison as revealed above.

IMO it's more likely to be variations in local conditions, be it temp, rubber on track, etc.

Good thread though!

[Ahonen]

Tyres work at their absolute best for only a couple of laps, then level out to give consistent performance for the rest of their usage.

You will always get top performance from a set of tyres on qualifying laps only, whatever the championship or tyre brand. You aim to use different cold pressures too, which makes the tyre perform differently - but in a way that would be unsustainable over a race distance. Yes, new tyres do go on in the races, but there's traffic, different track conditions and the desire for them to perform consistently for a stint to consider, too.

Those of us in GT and sportscar championships will also run different set-ups for qualifying, relative to race set-ups, because you want to make the tyre perform - but these set-ups are different for the races because otherwise the tyre wouldn't last when run in such an extreme manner.

Plus (and it's a fairly big plus), pro drivers on qualifying laps are absolutely, completely and totally fully lit, taking risks that they would never do in race conditions. And if they aren't on maximum attack, they should be sacked.