Autocar....... Say Mercedes are taking....
Discussion
Given that their closest natural competitor in the mainstream car market has just announced their withdrawal, it would be irresponsible of the Mercedes board not to re-assess the value they're getting from their F1 involvement.
Which is not to say they'll pull the plug, but check that they're still spending the right amount for the exposure, kudos and halo effect they get in return.
Hope that's all it is.
Which is not to say they'll pull the plug, but check that they're still spending the right amount for the exposure, kudos and halo effect they get in return.
Hope that's all it is.
Maybe Smax is going to get his wish of an almost all Cosworth powered grid after all 
hopefully Mercedes will realise that the huge amount of positive press they get from F1 will be worth the expense. It would be a shame if the supplier to a potential championship winner this year, pulled out just before winning Mercedes their first championship win in 11 years.
hopefully Mercedes will realise that the huge amount of positive press they get from F1 will be worth the expense. It would be a shame if the supplier to a potential championship winner this year, pulled out just before winning Mercedes their first championship win in 11 years.Edited by AndrewW-G on Wednesday 12th August 16:40
Not sure how simple a pull out is for MB. Pretty different situation to BMW selling or winding up it's entire F1 operation. MB are not just a supplier either. They have MB HPE at Brixworth building engines, I'm sure not just for F1 but that must be a substantial part of the operation. That would have to be closed/sold/relocated and all the issues of intelectual rights etc around any of those options dealt with. They own a large share of Mclaren F1 team but not sure if that extends to Mclaren as a whole and possibly any intellectual rights therein.
Do they have long term deals with Brawn and Force India to honour?
A race in North American would probably go a long way to assisting the MB board in their decision. It's a very key market for them to penetrate.
Do they have long term deals with Brawn and Force India to honour?
A race in North American would probably go a long way to assisting the MB board in their decision. It's a very key market for them to penetrate.
hmm, thing with mercedes is that they're winning, hammy is the reigning champ, brawn carried the flag for them and now hamilton has scored what must be a sweet tasting "factory" win which is making next season look promising. So the money spent is seen as having some return, the deal with BMW and honda is that they were paying $$mega$$ to be shown up. Whatever they say, thats half the reason every time- show me a manufacturer that quit while they were ahead *waits for the onslaught*
Also, mercs would have paid an obscene amount of money for their 40% of mclaren, they'd never see anything like a decent return now. You just never know, but mercs have been around a while.
Also, mercs would have paid an obscene amount of money for their 40% of mclaren, they'd never see anything like a decent return now. You just never know, but mercs have been around a while.
I don't see them pulling out.
Maybe scaling back a bit now that BMW are gone and the budget cap's looming.
But considering what they've spent to date, their infrastructure and investments, and the not-inconsiderable returns in brand and marketing terms, I'd say they are tabling all possibilities as one would responsibly do, but not realstically talking about withdrawing from F1.
F1's just about to offer incredible value for money compared to that offered over the last decade or two, so it'd be a damn odd decision to pull out now.
Maybe scaling back a bit now that BMW are gone and the budget cap's looming.
But considering what they've spent to date, their infrastructure and investments, and the not-inconsiderable returns in brand and marketing terms, I'd say they are tabling all possibilities as one would responsibly do, but not realstically talking about withdrawing from F1.
F1's just about to offer incredible value for money compared to that offered over the last decade or two, so it'd be a damn odd decision to pull out now.
FNG said:
I don't see them pulling out.
Maybe scaling back a bit now that BMW are gone and the budget cap's looming.
But considering what they've spent to date, their infrastructure and investments, and the not-inconsiderable returns in brand and marketing terms, I'd say they are tabling all possibilities as one would responsibly do, but not realstically talking about withdrawing from F1.
F1's just about to offer incredible value for money compared to that offered over the last decade or two, so it'd be a damn odd decision to pull out now.
I'd agree with you, but you just don't know- global recession, some pretty *big* names badly affected, personally I've never though F1 in particular ever offered the brand prestige worth the outlay, in a business sense. Except perhaps ferrari, but they're propped up by FIAT.Maybe scaling back a bit now that BMW are gone and the budget cap's looming.
But considering what they've spent to date, their infrastructure and investments, and the not-inconsiderable returns in brand and marketing terms, I'd say they are tabling all possibilities as one would responsibly do, but not realstically talking about withdrawing from F1.
F1's just about to offer incredible value for money compared to that offered over the last decade or two, so it'd be a damn odd decision to pull out now.
When I bought my mercedes van it had a lot more to do with the specs and options list and nothing whatsoever to do with mercs F1 program, low as my faith is in humanity, I daresay most people are the same...
hairyben said:
When I bought my mercedes van it had a lot more to do with the specs and options list and nothing whatsoever to do with mercs F1 program, low as my faith is in humanity, I daresay most people are the same...
I can't locate what M-B spent last year for advertising globally, but it would have been in the billions. I would not know how many people would have bought M-Bs as a result of advertising, but it is a fact that F1 is about the only form of advertising of which each unit is guaranteed global exposure.You yourself may have been unaffected by their F1 programme when you decided to buy a Merc van rather than a Vauxhall, but as an informed PHer, you are likely to be in the minority. The many, many billions for advertising that are spent each year by the automobile, cosmetics, electronics, fashion and loads of other industries may seem unfathomable to you and me, but it's unlikely that all the companies spending all that dough are deluded. More likely is that they know from a great deal of experience that purchase decisions can be heavily influenced by marketing, regardless of whether those decisions are entirely logical.
I'd guess that the case for exiting F1 would more be based on political considerations - the appearance of a sometimes disgusting extent of self-indulgence in the sport, at the same time that M-B could be laying off or reducing the income of thousands of its normal workers. The fact that Germany is at risk of losing an annual GP cannot help the political calculation.
EDLT said:
Are MB even spending that much, the engines they sell to Force India/Brawn must be making a bit of a dent?
Then there is the chance that most of the rules will be completely different by this time next year, they could end up with more teams wanting engines.
It's my impression that FI are paying IRO $15M for the Mercedes engines and McLaren gearboxes this year. Not a small sum, but I should not think that it would make a difference to whether M-B stayed or left, especially after deducting the cost of producing those devices, which would leave a considerably smaller net profit.Then there is the chance that most of the rules will be completely different by this time next year, they could end up with more teams wanting engines.
If Brawn were to end up with either title this year, I'd expect Mercedes to try to capitalise on that fact, which would be a bit of a fillip.
smifffymoto said:
Times are hard and going to get harder.I think MB are putting out feelers to see what the reaction is,if it isn't that bad they will seriousley consider a pull out
That could be. It's also possible/likely that one or more people on one of their boards (of which there are several) is in a minority that is and maybe always has been opposed to their F1 expenditure. Then that guy will be interviewed by a journalist, it could even be a financial journalist with no interest in motor sport, and he takes the opportunity to voice that opposition. The press then expand one guy's sentiments into "M-B board reconsidering commitment to F1".Mercedes might pull out but McLaren won't. Yet Mercedes own a significant stake in McLaren, so would they really consider selling that too? There's not much point owning a stake in a company if you're not going to have a say...
My point I guess is that they're more tied into F1 than BMW was/is.
My point I guess is that they're more tied into F1 than BMW was/is.
navier_stokes said:
Mercedes might pull out but McLaren won't. Yet Mercedes own a significant stake in McLaren, so would they really consider selling that too? There's not much point owning a stake in a company if you're not going to have a say...
My point I guess is that they're more tied into F1 than BMW was/is.
I can't keep track of who runs what, and their relative power in the company, but it's my impression that Zetsche is less interested in motor sport and in McLaren than Hubbert was. Hubbert used to come to a lot of the races. Zetsche? - maybe he came to the German GP.My point I guess is that they're more tied into F1 than BMW was/is.
I'd agree that M-B is more tied in than BMW was. First, you've got the Silver Arrows history, which in Germany is not an insignificant thing; it's a lot more substantial than are the dim and distant memories of W. O. Bentley. Then you've got the Daimler ownership structure, which is more diverse and, at least in some senses, less fragile than BMW's. Also, Daimler's revenue stream is 75% bigger than BMW's. This is not to mention that, whereas BMW had one F1 win ever, McL. has had 150-ish wins, many titles, and has the most marketable driver in the world on its books. Finally, I'd wager that Ron Dennis is a bit better salesman than Mario Theissen is!
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