Whats the verdict on Renault?
Discussion
I thought they were in court this morning to decide whether they get to race at Valencia?
I personally wont be sad not to see Alonso's whinging 'I want to be Number 1' face, nor Flabio sliming round the place - but its not going to make the racing any more exciting having empty slots on the grid.
I personally wont be sad not to see Alonso's whinging 'I want to be Number 1' face, nor Flabio sliming round the place - but its not going to make the racing any more exciting having empty slots on the grid.
James on is excellent blog said:
The stewards have presented the appeal court judges with a tricky one here, as this is not an area which has been clamped down on so severely in the past – although Red Bull was fined $50,000 in Australia this year for not complying with an instruction to bring Sebastian Vettel’s unsafe car in after it was damaged in a collision. So the question facing the judges is not about establishing guilt, but “Does the punishment fit the crime?”
Complicating things further is the risk of making F1 look manipulated, as though rules can be enforced or not depending on whim or circumstance, by letting them off. The presence of Renault and Fernando Alonso is very important to the promoters and fans in Valencia. It would be very cynical if, through sheer pragmatism, the penalty were rescinded to allow Alonso to race. F1 needs to move on from situations which open it up to ridicule and insinuation.
I have to say I agree. It is a real shame they have not followed this one through.Complicating things further is the risk of making F1 look manipulated, as though rules can be enforced or not depending on whim or circumstance, by letting them off. The presence of Renault and Fernando Alonso is very important to the promoters and fans in Valencia. It would be very cynical if, through sheer pragmatism, the penalty were rescinded to allow Alonso to race. F1 needs to move on from situations which open it up to ridicule and insinuation.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2009/08/renault-hope...
A911DOM said:
Interesting.
Im saying nothing - but any thoughts on this had it been 'another team'?
Im surprised at the verdict given the recent problems with flying objects on the track!
but that is the problem with the stewards original penalty: it had the smell of punishing Renault for recent events, rather than being reasonable and consistent with previous judgements. In many respects sanity (of sorts; but this is the FIA and F1!) prevails: the Spanish would be livid if Alonso didn't race.Im saying nothing - but any thoughts on this had it been 'another team'?
Im surprised at the verdict given the recent problems with flying objects on the track!
on a parallel theme: I wonder if Red Bull will manage to get away with a third race in a row committing a pit lane offence and only get fined for it! lol
llewop said:
A911DOM said:
Interesting.
Im saying nothing - but any thoughts on this had it been 'another team'?
Im surprised at the verdict given the recent problems with flying objects on the track!
but that is the problem with the stewards original penalty: it had the smell of punishing Renault for recent events, rather than being reasonable and consistent with previous judgements. In many respects sanity (of sorts; but this is the FIA and F1!) prevails: the Spanish would be livid if Alonso didn't raceIm saying nothing - but any thoughts on this had it been 'another team'?
Im surprised at the verdict given the recent problems with flying objects on the track!
for e.g.: - The stewards said Renault's pit crew "knowingly released car number seven from the pit stop position without one of the retaining devices for the wheel-nuts being securely in position."
Knowingly? The implication that team [as a whole]? Do these guys even watch the sport?
It is the responsibility of the 'lollipop' man to decide if the car is fit to leave given by the indicators of the crew working on the wheels. They goofed. The lollipop man obviously thought the wheel was on properly. The Stewards imply he knew it wasn't on, but must've thought, "Ah it's a car. If can go with 3 wheels. You can go son. You'll be fine..."
Also - They also determined that "being aware of this, Renault failed to take any action to prevent the car from leaving the pit lane... and failed to inform the driver of this problem or to advise him to take appropriate action given the circumstances, even though the driver contacted the team by radio believing he had a puncture."
Given this had happened seconds ago, I reckon the first people to know of the f
k-up beyong the lollipop man and wheel crew, was those in ear-shot during a rather loud race, of them yelling "fk!". Alonso proably knew before his race engineer about some massive vibration on leaving the pits, and informed the heirarchy by this channel before anyone else.Are the Stewards attempting to imply that in the factions of a second before the car goes off the jack to it starting to pull away, they should somehow stop the car from moving. And how is that? Using some politically hysterical red tape?
And - "We admit we did some stuff wrong, but we don't think that the penalty fits the crime," added Nielsen.
No sh!t. Usually fate deals the blow of you failing to win the race (or maybe a podium).
Total PC over-exuberance. Stewards: This is a sport. To BE a sport it needs consistent, impartial and non-mass-hysterical rule application... or due intelligence as some would prefer to call it.
When is Jackie Stewart going to lead the race stewarding?
Hrrumph!
The right decsion made there.
Details in the story say Renault quoted a number of other situations where the maximum £30k fine was issued so it seems right that this is what was given.
Could be worse I guess, look what happended in the Championship football this weekend and there's no option to appeal there.
Details in the story say Renault quoted a number of other situations where the maximum £30k fine was issued so it seems right that this is what was given.
Could be worse I guess, look what happended in the Championship football this weekend and there's no option to appeal there.
I didn't want Renault excluded as it would be like me going to the British grand prix being told Lewis or Jenson weren't racing. Many would have booked tickets just to see Alonso. Saying that though i thought Renualts statement of "It also argued that the only people who knew about the error were the mechanics working on that wheel, and that they were unable to inform any team personnel on the pitwall to warn Alonso before the wheel detached" Seemed highly unlikely, everyone could see the wheel wasn't on properly. IMHO the fine seems fair though. I could even see a grid penalty but the exclusion was a little excessive. Most likely initially given due to the recent tradegy. A bit of a wake up call for people working on the safety of the sport. Which even now is at an excellant standard.
SPR2 said:
Who will be now replacing Piquet this weekend?
Roman Grosjean is already down to race. team underdog said:
Well that was just a waste of time, money and has only brought on more bad publicity for the stewarding in F1. At least they're consistent in their incompetence!!
I agree. I find it incredible how a bunch of what appear to be quite intelligent people can be quite so incompetent.Not wishing to toot my own horn but
Weeks ago the wise old cove El Guapo said:
The appropriate punishment would be a fine and/or loss of constructor points, which is what I believe will happen on appeal.
Exclusion of an entire team from a race weekend is detrimental to the sport and should only be contemplated for the most heinous offences IMO.Actually if you look at the process logically it makes sense.
Stewards give a draconian penalty, knowing that Renault will appeal.
Appeal is upheld and a more consistent penalty is applied.
Result: Renault get what they could have normally expected and everyone else gets a very clear warning.
Stewards give a draconian penalty, knowing that Renault will appeal.
Appeal is upheld and a more consistent penalty is applied.
Result: Renault get what they could have normally expected and everyone else gets a very clear warning.
Alfie Noakes said:
Actually if you look at the process logically it makes sense.
Stewards give a draconian penalty, knowing that Renault will appeal.
Appeal is upheld and a more consistent penalty is applied.
Result: Renault get what they could have normally expected and everyone else gets a very clear warning.
+1Stewards give a draconian penalty, knowing that Renault will appeal.
Appeal is upheld and a more consistent penalty is applied.
Result: Renault get what they could have normally expected and everyone else gets a very clear warning.
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