Vettel out of hunt for Championship?

[Flat_Steve]

Haven't seen this mentioned in the media but, with only two (potentially fragile) engines and six races left, Vettel's championship challenge is now effectively over as, even if the engines don't blow, they'll be quite tired and decidedly second-hand after three races each. And if he does suffer any more failures he'll have to take some quite big penalties that will put the stoppers on him gaining any serious points.

That leaves Hamilton, Webber and Barrichello with any serious chance at challenging Button to the flag, with the latter two the most likely to take the fight to him.

[Alex97]

I think calling Hamilton's title chances "serious" is slightly naïve.

[Y32]

Alex97 said:

I think calling Hamilton's title chances "serious" is slightly naïve.

Totally agree! Ok he has won a race and the car looks good but serious chance for WDC I think it's a bit unrealistic.

Edit to add: Yep, Vettel's chances are looking hopeless, although I think he can still win a couple more times (optimistically speaking)

Edited by Y32 on Monday 24th August 15:15

[Wanta996Gotta]

Y32 said:

Alex97 said:

I think calling Hamilton's title chances "serious" is slightly naïve.

Totally agree! Ok he has won a race and the car looks good but serious chance for WDC I think it's a bit unrealistic.

Agree, i think 3rd, 2nd at best must be his target(With team concentrating on finishing ahead of Ferrari). I am though suprised with Jensons lack of any DNF's this year - law of averages say that one is just around the corner.

As for Vettel? Could this year have been his best chance for WDC? I cant imagine Ferrari and Mclaren starting there season so badly next year.

[MartG]

A couple of things to bear in mind - though I believe the engine that blew during the race was new, the one that let go in practice could have been used before. Also he doesn't just have two engines to last the rest of the season, as he can reuse one of the ones he used earlier in the year

[zac510]

MartG said:

A couple of things to bear in mind - though I believe the engine that blew during the race was new, the one that let go in practice could have been used before. Also he doesn't just have two engines to last the rest of the season, as he can reuse one of the ones he used earlier in the year

Yes that's correct. They might run the tired one in practice maybe they did in Valencia and new one in the race. This may have been the precise plan in Valencia, the practice failure making it far more obvious!

I'd like to see the latest stats on engine usages, I haven't seen a chart lately.. Anyone?

[AlexS]

MartG said:

A couple of things to bear in mind - though I believe the engine that blew during the race was new, the one that let go in practice could have been used before. Also he doesn't just have two engines to last the rest of the season, as he can reuse one of the ones he used earlier in the year

I think he he's already blown another engine as well. So three already used ones left, and they've all done two races, plus the two new units. The next two circuits are also the two hardest for engine use. There could well be at least one 10 place drop in the offing.

[heebeegeetee]

I think a more interesting thread would be about why Vettel is not getting the job done this season. The man who everyone and is wife was telling me is better than Hamilton is not putting away Mark Webber, never mind Fernando Alonso.

[MGJohn]

heebeegeetee said:

I think a more interesting thread would be about why Vettel is not getting the job done this season. The man who everyone and is wife was telling me is better than Hamilton is not putting away Mark Webber, never mind Fernando Alonso.

Not everyone and his wife.... include this couple out ...
..

[heebeegeetee]

MGJohn said:

heebeegeetee said:

I think a more interesting thread would be about why Vettel is not getting the job done this season. The man who everyone and is wife was telling me is better than Hamilton is not putting away Mark Webber, never mind Fernando Alonso.

Not everyone and his wife.... include this couple out ...
..

Righto.

[anonymous-user]

I think Weber has raised his game this year, I've never rated him (in terms of F1, he was obviously still brilliant) but the leg break and the arrival of a quick team mate has done something to his head in a positive way. So i think Vettel isn't looking as good as people thought, because his team mate is equally good right now. Vettel has made some silly mistakes, but thats to be expected with his experience, just the same as happened with Lewis, so i wouldn't hold those against him, he is still a very quick lad and will only get better.

[heebeegeetee]

johnfelstead said:

I think Weber has raised his game this year, I've never rated him (in terms of F1, he was obviously still brilliant) but the leg break and the arrival of a quick team mate has done something to his head in a positive way. So i think Vettel isn't looking as good as people thought, because his team mate is equally good right now. Vettel has made some silly mistakes, but thats to be expected with his experience, just the same as happened with Lewis, so i wouldn't hold those against him, he is still a very quick lad and will only get better.

I agree, but SV hasn't made anything like the impact Hamilton made. I thought Webber was going to get thrashed this year.

I think SV will get better but he seems to be getting a bit of a pyscological battering this year.

[Jungles]

heebeegeetee said:

I agree, but SV hasn't made anything like the impact Hamilton made. I thought Webber was going to get thrashed this year.

I think SV will get better but he seems to be getting a bit of a pyscological battering this year.

I can't remember any other driver in recent history who has made as much impact as Hamilton had, even Senna or Schumacher. Hamilton's performances in 2007 and 2008 shouldn't be expected from any young guns, even those with promising WDC potential. His raw talent, skill, opportunity, and timing were all perfect. No other driver has had that in their first two seasons, except perhaps Jacques Villeneuve.

SV has done very well, relative to his level of experience, age, car's competitiveness, the quality of the rival teams, and the quality of his team mate. The RB5 has not been supremely competitive this season, only in about five races has the car been truly competitive (China, Britain, Turkey, Germany, Hungary) and SV has performed well in four of them (China, Britain, Turkey, Germany). And Mark Webber is no sloucher.

I think he's got some rough edges to smooth out. His starts are tragically bad and his racing aggression needs to be tempered (he is either too aggressive or too gentle), but he's otherwise a fine driver. He still has plenty of time to mature up. He's no Senna and no Hamilton, but he can still get there. Remember that Hamilton was the same age when he started in F1 in 2007 than SV's current age, and as I recall, he enjoyed a more dominant car and less competitive field than SV this year.

Edited by Jungles on Tuesday 25th August 05:21

[10 Pence Short]

Jungles said:

I can't remember any other driver in recent history who has made as much impact as Hamilton had, even Senna or Schumacher. Hamilton's performances in 2007 and 2008 shouldn't be expected from any young guns, even those with promising WDC potential. His raw talent, skill, opportunity, and timing were all perfect. No other driver has had that in their first two seasons, except perhaps Jacques Villeneuve.

As much as I support Hamilton, and I really do, don't forget he began his F1 career in the best car on the grid. Having said thatr, his performances relative to Alonso demonstrated he's got a lot of talent.

[anonymous-user]

Is my memory right that since the 10 point win you have needed over 100 points to win the championship, with only the first two people in each year getting the 100.

Assuming I'm right Button then needs 28 points from 6 races which is 4th or better in each race. based on last few races and historical data he could easily lose it.

Hamilton even if he wins the next 6 gets 87, which is no where near enough based on the historical achievments.

[Miss Pitstop]

zac510 said:

I'd like to see the latest stats on engine usages, I haven't seen a chart lately.. Anyone?

Yer tis - http://www.pitlanefanatic.com/engine.php

[kevin ritson]

heebeegeetee said:

I think a more interesting thread would be about why Vettel is not getting the job done this season. The man who everyone and is wife was telling me is better than Hamilton is not putting away Mark Webber, never mind Fernando Alonso.

Vettel's still young and inexperienced, last year was his first full year in F1, this his first in a title-contending car. Hamilton, let's remember had many more years in lower formulae to perfect his skills, although I'd agree he's still done a lot better.

Let's not forget that he's thrashed qualifying specialist Webber in this department and has won more races, with DNFs betraying his youth. And let's also not forget that Trulli ran Alonso very close when they were team mates in '04...but would you have Jarno down as one of the very best?

[dom180]

kevin ritson said:

heebeegeetee said:

I think a more interesting thread would be about why Vettel is not getting the job done this season. The man who everyone and is wife was telling me is better than Hamilton is not putting away Mark Webber, never mind Fernando Alonso.

Vettel's still young and inexperienced, last year was his first full year in F1, this his first in a title-contending car. Hamilton, let's remember had many more years in lower formulae to perfect his skills, although I'd agree he's still done a lot better.

Let's not forget that he's thrashed qualifying specialist Webber in this department and has won more races, with DNFs betraying his youth. And let's also not forget that Trulli ran Alonso very close when they were team mates in '04...but would you have Jarno down as one of the very best?

Don't forget a large part of Vettel's edge over Webber in qualie this season is the current weight/balast rules (thankfully being revised for next season) - Webber is down 2 tenths to Vettel before they start a lap on most circuits and frequently Webber has run more fuel in qualie this season, eyeing a better race strategy than Vettel. (And of course Webber would have won in Malaysia if the race had lasted a couple more laps....)

Edited by dom180 on Tuesday 25th August 20:35

[kevin ritson]

Are you Webber's excuse writer?

[llewop]

dom180 said:

And of course Webber would have won in Malaysia if the race had lasted a couple more laps....

???
Twaddle

He finished 50+ seconds behind Button - I don't recall him being 25 seconds a lap quicker! If anyone was on the move it was Glock (I never did understand how Heidfeld
was shown as ahead of him at the end of things!