2009 F1 grid in identical cars

[Conian]

following on from the 'is Button over rated' thread where I suggested that today's racing is mostly down to being in the best car... if all of this years drivers were in identical cars (and adjusted to suit their style)... who would win?

[Gold]

Hamilton, Raikonnen or Alonso, all decided by luck and who had the best strategies although Webber, Rosberg, Vettel, Kubica, Button, Barrichello, Webber would all have a shot at it as well imo, shows the strength and depth of drivers at the moment.

[SoliD]

I would think it would be extremely close between Hamilton and Alonso, couldn't see anybody matching them two this year.

[Holst]

Whover had the best engineer to setup the car.
Or if the cars were completely fixed then whoever got the lucky engine

[Scuffers]

identical cars <> F1

[dpbird90]

I agree with LH/FA/KR, but don't forget Massa.

They're in the best cars for a reason

[Jungles]

I sometimes wish they'd stick all the drivers in identical GP2 cars (with their own setups, ART GP or iSport can do it) before the start of each season and do a "draft" pick for race seats.

[mko9]

Even if they were all in the same chassis, the chassis itself would affect the outcome. Just look at STR when they changed platforms mid-season last year. Bourdais was showing some promise in the STR3, while Vettel wasn't really doing much better than Speed/Liuzzi. Along comes the STR4 and Vettel is suddenly a contender/race winner and Bourdais slides to the back of the grid.

There is no doubt in my mind that the platform plays a huge part in who is successful in F1, but I don't think you could ever truly level the playing field.

[Jungles]

I think much depends on setup and how the chassis responds to it. Bourdais won 4 Champ Cars championships under two different chassis (Lola B02 and Panoz DP-01), which seems to indicate that either he's not such a limited driver, or that he has enjoyed the help of fantastic engineers (he did drive for NH, so that is a given). If the chassis is flexible in terms of the range of setup options, then drivers should be able to configure it to their needs within reasonable bounds.

IMHO, Formula 3 and GP2 cars are forgiving enough to allow a reasonably objective measure of driver ability.

[Mr Dave]

The race of champions at Wembley stadium was a fun way to see this. Ok not exactly the same but it showed that the top level drivers from most types of motorsport are very very similar in performance aadn teh slightest mistake can lead to big differences in times.

Over the length of a race I would say whoever was physically and mentally strongest, with least weight and had the most drive behind them would win. I would say Lewis Hamilton/Sebastien Vettel/Kubica would probably be the front runners for that as he does have the stubborness to pull out all the stops on occasion. Where Button/Barrichello is smoother and relies more on not making mistakes.

Really though there wouldnt be much in it. Which is what makes F1 so interesting for me.

[DSM2]

Jungles said:

I think much depends on setup and how the chassis responds to it. Bourdais won 4 Champ Cars championships under two different chassis (Lola B02 and Panoz DP-01), which seems to indicate that either he's not such a limited driver, or that he has enjoyed the help of fantastic engineers (he did drive for NH, so that is a given).

.......or that the standard in F1, both in terms of ability and technically, is somewhat higher than in CC?

[thunderbelmont]

DSM2 said:

Jungles said:

I think much depends on setup and how the chassis responds to it. Bourdais won 4 Champ Cars championships under two different chassis (Lola B02 and Panoz DP-01), which seems to indicate that either he's not such a limited driver, or that he has enjoyed the help of fantastic engineers (he did drive for NH, so that is a given).

.......or that the standard in F1, both in terms of ability and technically, is somewhat higher than in CC?

According to information I have read, and listened to from people who know, F1 cars can vary dramatically just by the way the sun is shining on them, they're like spooky race horses, while on one day you can scream and shout at them and they ignore you, on another if you breath heavily they'll go ballistic! ChampCar/Indycars are less picky, it's probably due to the lower overall amount of downforce, being flat bottomed, and being heavier. they're not on the same knife-edge, plus they're designed to be tweaked during pitstops much more than F1 cars.

Seb did well in the Superleague Formula on his first outing with pretty well zero mileage in the car/package. OK, the car's based on a DP01 ChampCar, but has a big chunky V12 up the back, and 750hp up it's shirt, so it's a bit of a handful (and being a V12, it sounds gorgeous!). I think F1 spat him out because he his face didn't fit. Perhaps he didn't complain enough to motivate the team to sort out the car? Or perhaps he did, and they didn't like the truth?

So, putting the whole 2009 collective in identical cars - I'd stick 'em in a grid-full of Lotus 49's (not b's or c's), that'd make them work for their living.

[Gruffy]

thunderbelmont said:

I'd stick 'em in a grid-full of Lotus 49's (not b's or c's), that'd make them work for their living.

That would be a beautiful thing.

[thunderbelmont]

I did think about using Lotus 43's, but there ain't enough engineers to keep those things running!

[Mini1275]

Hamilton or Alonso.

[Jungles]

thunderbelmont said:

So, putting the whole 2009 collective in identical cars - I'd stick 'em in a grid-full of Lotus 49's (not b's or c's), that'd make them work for their living.

LOL! Lotus 49s!

Personally, I'm in favour of Inter-continental class 250cc superkarts ( vid). Closest thing to F1 in term of feel, and very affordable compared to other racing categories. Lots of close racing (three or four-abreast overtakes are not uncommon). Easy to standardise too.

Edited by Jungles on Monday 7th September 14:27

[entropy]

Jungles said:

I think much depends on setup and how the chassis responds to it. Bourdais won 4 Champ Cars championships under two different chassis (Lola B02 and Panoz DP-01), which seems to indicate that either he's not such a limited driver, or that he has enjoyed the help of fantastic engineers (he did drive for NH, so that is a given). If the chassis is flexible in terms of the range of setup options, then drivers should be able to configure it to their needs within reasonable bounds.

IMHO, Formula 3 and GP2 cars are forgiving enough to allow a reasonably objective measure of driver ability.

Being in the best team still counts for a lot.

Seabass drove for NHL who had the best engineers in CCWS. Forsythe were a team who could really give NHL a good run for their money. AJ Allmendinger looked a bit out his depth with RuSport but then jumped to Forsythe and winning races.

F1 requires a higher work ethic. You're constantly wanting to improve the car. There's lesser scope with customer cars.

[skinny]

Jungles said:

Personally, I'm in favour of Inter-continental class 250cc superkarts ( vid). Closest thing to F1 in term of feel, and very affordable compared to other racing categories. Lots of close racing (three or four-abreast overtakes are not uncommon). Easy to standardise too.

i think they should all have to do this anyway, friday or saturday afternoon of every race weekend, a 10 lap superkart race, position 1,2,3 get a prize to donate to charity get a bit more value out of an f1 weekend for the fans.

[AlexS]

Identical cars can still play into the hands of certain drivers, depending on the basic balance of the chassis. Lewis and Kimi both like a sharp front and a mobile rear which they can control on the throttle, whilst Felipe and Heiki both like a smidge of understeer to push against.

I really would like to see Felipe and Heiki in last years Ferrari up against Lewis and Kimi in the equivalent McLaren.

[sperminator]

I think they would all cross the line in the same time, like one big useless turd blamange.