Discussion
Sounds about right. TJD2003 said:
Kickstart said:
Renault as a team/company not guilty on the basis the boardroom cleaner back in france was unaware
Flavio publically flogged
£1m fine
Ron Dennis to pay fine
tea and medals all round
Flavio publically flogged
£1m fine
Ron Dennis to pay fine
tea and medals all round
Dont forget, moraly give all points recieved to Ferrari as thats only moraly correct.
Edit - Bernie hints at leniency
Bernie Ecclestone has hinted that Flavio Briatore's departure from Renault could yet save the team from being thrown out of Formula One.
Renault will today face the FIA's World Motor Sport Council to answer charges of race-fixing at last year's Singapore GP after the team had Nelson Piquet Jr deliberately crash in order to help his team-mate Fernando Alonso claim the race win.
If found guilty Renault could be thrown out of Formula One, handed a suspension or slapped with a hefty fine. And it's the latter that appears to be the most likely outcome after Renault parted ways with two alleged masterminds, Briatore and director of engineering Pat Symonds.
At the time of his departure, Briatore stated that he quit to save the team. "I was just trying to save the team. It's my duty. That's the reason I've finished," he told the Daily Mirror.
And it looks as if Briatore's martyrdom could do just that.
"I think we need to show balance. What they did was very serious. But they have acted to get rid of the culprits," Ecclestone told the Daily Mail.
The F1 supremo is one of the men who will sit on today's 26-man Council and hear arguments for leniency from Renault's lawyers, as the team has already stated they "will not dispute" the allegations of race-fixing.
The hearing, which will take place in Paris, will start at 07H30 GMT.
Edited by Wanta996Gotta on Monday 21st September 09:52
A clear summary here:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_ite...
without leaps of faith or creation of evidence.
I can't help wondering what Alonso's role will be. He says it came as a complete surprise to him. Is he there as a defendant or witness?
But the penalty:
Against Renault-
Exclusion from the balance of the 2009 season. No cars allowed on track but engine supply to remain.
Censure.
2008 results modified to exclude all Renault results.
Fine of, probably, gigantic proportions, suspended for two years.
Imposition of some kind of FIA supervisor for that period.
And, the worst one of all, imposition of Todt's son as team manager.
Renault to pay full costs of hearing, including expenses of all those attending.
Against Briatore:
Much hand-wringing that because of his resignation they are unable to pursue the matter of conspiracy.
Blocked from being a team manager again.
Suggestion the rules regarding team managers and driver managers to be looked at.
Against Symonds:
Blocked from every having anything to do with motorsport ever again.
Against Alonso:
Beatified.
Given money out of the poor box.
Cleared to join any team of his choice as of Tuesday morning.
Allowed to move to that team immediately.
Re FIA/Mosley
Great praise heaped on both, and Todt, for the way the matter was investigated and cleared up with very little harm to the sport's image. Other than, of course, F1.
Some reference made to the similar heroic efforts of those investigators aboard the Titanic who, despite a great deal of unhelpful pressure to actually save people (not to mention stop the leaks), managed to come up with a decision as to fault for the incident just before the ship disappeared under the waves.
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_ite...
without leaps of faith or creation of evidence.
I can't help wondering what Alonso's role will be. He says it came as a complete surprise to him. Is he there as a defendant or witness?
But the penalty:
Against Renault-
Exclusion from the balance of the 2009 season. No cars allowed on track but engine supply to remain.
Censure.
2008 results modified to exclude all Renault results.
Fine of, probably, gigantic proportions, suspended for two years.
Imposition of some kind of FIA supervisor for that period.
And, the worst one of all, imposition of Todt's son as team manager.
Renault to pay full costs of hearing, including expenses of all those attending.
Against Briatore:
Much hand-wringing that because of his resignation they are unable to pursue the matter of conspiracy.
Blocked from being a team manager again.
Suggestion the rules regarding team managers and driver managers to be looked at.
Against Symonds:
Blocked from every having anything to do with motorsport ever again.
Against Alonso:
Beatified.
Given money out of the poor box.
Cleared to join any team of his choice as of Tuesday morning.
Allowed to move to that team immediately.
Re FIA/Mosley
Great praise heaped on both, and Todt, for the way the matter was investigated and cleared up with very little harm to the sport's image. Other than, of course, F1.
Some reference made to the similar heroic efforts of those investigators aboard the Titanic who, despite a great deal of unhelpful pressure to actually save people (not to mention stop the leaks), managed to come up with a decision as to fault for the incident just before the ship disappeared under the waves.
If the penalty (whatever it is) doesn't top what Mclaren got for Spygate it'll be a complete joke.
100million fine + thrown out of 2009 championship minimum
That said- everyone "cheats" to the maximum they can without getting caught, I'd bet theres not a single legal car on the grid at least in some small detail.
They deserve the punishment for the sheer stupidity of asking Piquet to the crash then sacking his arse :_)
100million fine + thrown out of 2009 championship minimum
That said- everyone "cheats" to the maximum they can without getting caught, I'd bet theres not a single legal car on the grid at least in some small detail.
They deserve the punishment for the sheer stupidity of asking Piquet to the crash then sacking his arse :_)
Derek Smith said:
Cleared to join any team of his choice as of Tuesday morning.
Allowed to move to that team immediately.
I've spotted the flaw here Derek, that team of his choice couldn't be Ferrari as they've used their maximum quota of drivers for the year. How do we get around that?Allowed to move to that team immediately.
scubadude said:
If the penalty (whatever it is) doesn't top what Mclaren got for Spygate it'll be a complete joke.
We already know it'll be a complete joke.The chess pieces have already been moved in anticipation; Briatore and Symonds have been made the fall guys and Renault will be pretty much absolved of blame.
Renault removed from 2008 Constructors points standings, Renault's TV money for 2008 witheld by Bernie.
Alonso's points for the Singapore race removed, other points winners in that race remain unchanged, therefore no change to the 2008 WDC.
Piquet gets a pat on the head.
Symonds gets an indefinite ban from working in F1 (to be revoked after around 10 months like Coughlan and Stepney)
Briatore gets a lifetime ban from being in the F1 paddock/pitlane. A picture is ordered to be taken on the steps of the FIA HQ with Mosley stood one step higher than Briatore with the two shaking hands. Mosley to have a look on his face like he wants to wipe the sweat from his hand immedeatly.
Renault get told that the loss of 2008 TV money will be more than enough punishment for them and they would be very welcome to contest the 2010 F1 world championship.
Renault tell Mosley and Ecclestone to "f
k off, the F1 team will close, but the Renault Le Mans team will work from the Enstone Factory. 
Alonso's points for the Singapore race removed, other points winners in that race remain unchanged, therefore no change to the 2008 WDC.
Piquet gets a pat on the head.
Symonds gets an indefinite ban from working in F1 (to be revoked after around 10 months like Coughlan and Stepney)
Briatore gets a lifetime ban from being in the F1 paddock/pitlane. A picture is ordered to be taken on the steps of the FIA HQ with Mosley stood one step higher than Briatore with the two shaking hands. Mosley to have a look on his face like he wants to wipe the sweat from his hand immedeatly.
Renault get told that the loss of 2008 TV money will be more than enough punishment for them and they would be very welcome to contest the 2010 F1 world championship.
Renault tell Mosley and Ecclestone to "f
k off, the F1 team will close, but the Renault Le Mans team will work from the Enstone Factory. Project 644 said:
A picture is ordered to be taken on the steps of the FIA HQ with Mosley stood one step higher than Briatore with the two shaking hands. Mosley to have a look on his face like he wants to wipe the sweat from his hand immedeatly.
Just read this and thought how stupid (yet typical FIA) it would be, then my memory hit me and reminded me it actually happened with Ron in the paddock!cringeworthy or what?
Meeting over after 90 min supposedly.
The Renault Formula One team's so-called "crash-gate"; hearing of the World Motor Sport Council on Monday took less than two hours.
With the French team already effectively admitting the guilt of Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds and not contesting the conspiracy charges, a decision is expected to be published by the FIA before the end of business hours. Briatore and Symonds did not appear, but notably present were the two Nelson Piquets and Fernando Alonso. Also at the Paris hearing was Renault's F1 president Bernard Rey and head of communication Jean Francois Caubet, as well as Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone.
Regards
TJ
The Renault Formula One team's so-called "crash-gate"; hearing of the World Motor Sport Council on Monday took less than two hours.
With the French team already effectively admitting the guilt of Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds and not contesting the conspiracy charges, a decision is expected to be published by the FIA before the end of business hours. Briatore and Symonds did not appear, but notably present were the two Nelson Piquets and Fernando Alonso. Also at the Paris hearing was Renault's F1 president Bernard Rey and head of communication Jean Francois Caubet, as well as Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone.
Regards
TJ
Edited by TJD2003 on Monday 21st September 12:28
paulrockliffe said:
Derek Smith said:
Cleared to join any team of his choice as of Tuesday morning.
Allowed to move to that team immediately.
I've spotted the flaw here Derek, that team of his choice couldn't be Ferrari as they've used their maximum quota of drivers for the year. How do we get around that?Allowed to move to that team immediately.
Forums | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff