Who is witness X????????

[Wanta996Gotta]

Ok guys, now that Symonds has admitted and apologised for the incident and no conspiracy theorists can keep dragging it on with its an FIA conspiracy nonsense. Who is witness X that put the final nail in Flavios coffin?

Some more info:-

"Renault F1 stated in its submissions of 17 September 2009 that Witness X had confirmed that Mr Briatore had known of the deliberate crash plan before it had been put into effect."

Following the revelation, and after being granted the right of anonymity to protect his identity - only FIA President Max Mosley and the body's legal advisors are aware of his real name - Witness X was then interviewed by a member of the FIA's external counsel.

Determining his evidence was factual, Renault made a third and final set of written submissions on Saturday which was the final nail in Briatore's coffin.

In their statement, they wrote: "Renault F1 has concluded that the following had knowledge of the conspiracy to cause a safety car: Nelson Piquet Jr, Pat Symonds, Flavio Briatore and Witness X.

[b]"Witness X was told of the idea suggested by Nelson Piquet Jr by Mr Symonds, whilst in the presence of Mr Briatore.

"Witness X objected to the idea. He did not know the plan was to be carried into effect until the crash happened.[/b]

"As a result of the evidence, including Mr Piquet's admission, Mr Symonds' responses and Witness X's evidence, Renault F1 concluded that they and Mr Briatore must have known about the conspiracy."

Edited by Wanta996Gotta on Wednesday 23 September 09:24

[Project 644]

fk me. I got accused yesterday of making a biased Poll. Good effort sir.

[VladD]

Who's Nobdoy? Is he on PH?

[Wanta996Gotta]

Project 644 said:

fk me. I got accused yesterday of making a biased Poll. Good effort sir.

I think your missing the point. Feel free to advise of any Renault employee that wont be exposed this week by a bribe for the newspaper. I can only think of one that would have too much to lose and certainly does not need the money.

[Mike Rob]

Deep Throat

[Project 644]

Wanta996Gotta said:

Project 644 said:

fk me. I got accused yesterday of making a biased Poll. Good effort sir.

I think your missing the point. Feel free to advise of any Renault employee that wont be exposed this week by a bribe for the newspaper. I can only think of one that would have too much to lose and certainly does not need the money.

I got the point. I was joking.

BB?

[TJD2003]

You've got to wonder why Piquet Jnr didn't mention the whistle blower was at the meeting in his original statement ?

Piquet senior said Alonso knew so why would they keep his name out of it if he was at the meeting ?

I presume it is not Alonso, was Piquet Jnr's father at the race meet ?

Regards
TJ

[telecat]

If he won't be named then the "evidence" is useless outside of Max's kangaroo court system. He (Smax)has to hope that Flavio doesn't take it to a "real" court. Given it affects Flavio's ability to earn a "living" they might take a dimmer view of the FIA's actions.

[llewop]

TJD2003 said:

You've got to wonder why Piquet Jnr didn't mention the whistle blower was at the meeting in his original statement ?

Piquet senior said Alonso knew so why would they keep his name out of it if he was at the meeting ?

I presume it is not Alonso, was Piquet Jnr's father at the race meet ?

Regards
TJ

I might be mis-reading it, but the sequence of things seems to suggest to me that there was prbably 3 'meetings':

1. PK jnr mentioning to Pat Symonds the idea of binning it to bring out the safety car for FA's advantage.

2. Symonds mentioning it to Flav (with Witness X in attendance - who it seems said something along the lines of 'don't be so stupid!)

3. Flav and Symonds going back to PK jnr to tell him to bin it, where and when.

SO PK jnr perhaps didn't even know about witness x....

[AndrewW-G]

You forget the "Nelson Piquet Snr" option, although I am happily surprised that for once you don’t seem to be blaming either Luca Di Montezemolo or Michael Schumacher

[Wanta996Gotta]

llewop said:

TJD2003 said:

You've got to wonder why Piquet Jnr didn't mention the whistle blower was at the meeting in his original statement ?

Piquet senior said Alonso knew so why would they keep his name out of it if he was at the meeting ?

I presume it is not Alonso, was Piquet Jnr's father at the race meet ?

Regards
TJ

I might be mis-reading it, but the sequence of things seems to suggest to me that there was prbably 3 'meetings':

1. PK jnr mentioning to Pat Symonds the idea of binning it to bring out the safety car for FA's advantage.

2. Symonds mentioning it to Flav (with Witness X in attendance - who it seems said something along the lines of 'don't be so stupid!)

3. Flav and Symonds going back to PK jnr to tell him to bin it, where and when.

SO PK jnr perhaps didn't even know about witness x....

Sounds good and very plausible

Autosport:-

However, during interviews that took place with team members, an individual revealed the details of the case.

He stated that Piquet had approached Symonds after qualifying to suggest the idea of a deliberate crash, and that the idea had been worked upon once Symonds mentioned it to Briatore.

The World Motor Sport Council's findings stated: "This version of events was put to Pat Symonds and Flavio Briatore. Mr Symonds did not deny the events. Mr Briatore consistently denied any involvement and did not recall the alleged discussion."

Renault admitted to the FIA that in light of the whistle-blower's evidence it made the decision not to dispute the charges and accept that there had been a conspiracy.

[Wanta996Gotta]

AndrewW-G said:

You forget the "Nelson Piquet Snr" option, although I am happily surprised that for once you don’t seem to be blaming either Luca Di Montezemolo or Michael Schumacher

Why would he want immunity as i think he has said enough dont you think? and he has already said that he found out about the incident after Singapore?

As for Luca and the Red team? I hope Alonso the Snake does go there as he would fit in quite nicely;)

[Derek Smith]

The suggestion was that this person was present at the post qually meeting beteen Symonds, Piquet and Briatore. I would suggest:

Car no. 8 Race engineers: Phil Charles, Ricardo Penteado and Andy Birch
Renault sporting director - that’s an easy job: Steve Nielsen
Technical director: Bob Bell, deputy James Allison
Race engineer (good at engineering races?): Alan Permane

As the whole thing seems to have been organised on the hoof, it might be someone like their PR or other trusted staff member. However, I would suggest that it is likely Witness X was appraoched by the FIA and, perhaps, it was pointed out that it was know he/she was present. A bit of negotiating, keep my name out of this and I'll put Pat away, that sort of thing. I don't know of course, but with everyone being offered immunity, it seems to me there were very few targets in this matter.

[AndrewW-G]

Wanta996Gotta said:

AndrewW-G said:

You forget the "Nelson Piquet Snr" option, although I am happily surprised that for once you don’t seem to be blaming either Luca Di Montezemolo or Michael Schumacher

Why would he want immunity as i think he has said enough dont you think? and he has already said that he found out about the incident after Singapore?

Could be the FIA's way of maintaining their illusion of fairness (yes I know, I chuckled when writing that!) if there were 2 Piquets backing up the claims in the FIA's "Court" then nobody could possibly think that it wasn’t a fit up, with a mystery shopper thrown into the mix it almost give the verdict an air of truth.

We know that Alonso was at the hearing, we understand that the alleged conversation where X was present apparently re-enforces the argument that it was all Piquet’s idea and Flav at least initially and in front of a witness declined the offer. What benefit would there be to Alonso of being Mr X?

It's a pity that what's been a good season so far has been tainted by such stupidity, first hamilton lying to stewards then getting the FIA to dig him out of the st and drop Ron Dennis into it!, then yet another kangaroo court from the FIA, where oddly the only person to receive a decent punishment was Flav a man who like Dennis stood up against mosley!

[TJD2003]

Good point, maybe he didnt know, reading back through Renault statement it doesnt mention he was there.

Regards
TJ

llewop said:

TJD2003 said:

You've got to wonder why Piquet Jnr didn't mention the whistle blower was at the meeting in his original statement ?

Piquet senior said Alonso knew so why would they keep his name out of it if he was at the meeting ?

I presume it is not Alonso, was Piquet Jnr's father at the race meet ?

Regards
TJ

I might be mis-reading it, but the sequence of things seems to suggest to me that there was prbably 3 'meetings':

1. PK jnr mentioning to Pat Symonds the idea of binning it to bring out the safety car for FA's advantage.

2. Symonds mentioning it to Flav (with Witness X in attendance - who it seems said something along the lines of 'don't be so stupid!)

3. Flav and Symonds going back to PK jnr to tell him to bin it, where and when.

SO PK jnr perhaps didn't even know about witness x....

[TimCrighton]

NPJ also cites Felipe Vargas as having known about the scheme and NPJ says that he spoke with him at length on the Saturday night before the race about the plan.

Present at the pre race meeting were Alonso, Briatore, Symonds, both race engineers and Renaults 'lead strategist' according to his statement to the FIA

[CNHSS1]

Bernie? could get a knock down price on Flavs QPR shares...

[Project 644]

CNHSS1 said:

Bernie? could get a knock down price on Flavs QPR shares...

This man has a point.

[CampDavid]

No chance of Alonso knowing anything about it. Would you trust that man with that info?

It would have been an engineer who spotted it. Could be any of them in the team who had access to race data, which would have been a great many people

[TheArchitect]

Who was PK's race engineer?