Why didnt Loeb get his Super Licence?

[TheArchitect]

as per title, what was the reasoning behind it?

[MonkeyHanger]

Not enough experience / lack of testing etc as far as i know.

[TJD2003]

Lack of single seater experience.

(oh and 4-5 seconds per lap slower than the rest makes him dangerouse)

Regards
TJ

[Wanta996Gotta]

TJD2003 said:

Lack of single seater experience.

(oh and 4-5 seconds per lap slower than the rest makes him dangerouse)

Regards
TJ

Was he that slow?

[FourWheelDrift]

He would be.

[plg101]

Wanta996Gotta said:

TJD2003 said:

Lack of single seater experience.

(oh and 4-5 seconds per lap slower than the rest makes him dangerouse)

Regards
TJ

Was he that slow?

To be fair to him, he was on the gravel for the whole lap...

[EDLT]

Wanta996Gotta said:

TJD2003 said:

Lack of single seater experience.

(oh and 4-5 seconds per lap slower than the rest makes him dangerouse)

Regards
TJ

Was he that slow?

No he wasn't. His times were "competitive" when he tested a Red Bull last year and he was less than a second off the pace of his team mate when he tested a GP2 car in wet/drying conditions.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,15776_56208...

[Jungles]

Wanta996Gotta said:

TJD2003 said:

Lack of single seater experience.

(oh and 4-5 seconds per lap slower than the rest makes him dangerouse)

Regards
TJ

Was he that slow?

Loeb himself admitted he would be off-pace. From his Q&A: "I know what I lack when I'm on a race circuit: on average, a second a lap. I imagine that in F1, there would have been a little more."

Here is a man whose only significant experience in circuit racing is in Le Mans 24 Hour races. Compare that to someone like Luca Badoer with many years in circuit racing and driving F1 cars, who was so slow in his two races this season that he was almost laughed off the track. Great though Loeb's ability is in rallying, he hasn't developed the specialist attributes and skills needed for F1. Top-level motorsport is so specialised these days, just pure ability isn't enough.

Edited by Jungles on Monday 26th October 13:59

[Mini1275]

And there let Grosjean go and crash every lap.

[FourWheelDrift]

Mini1275 said:

And there let Grosjean go and crash every lap.

Did you know Grosjean is on a £1.5million salary at Renault?

[CampDavid]

FourWheelDrift said:

Mini1275 said:

And there let Grosjean go and crash every lap.

Did you know Grosjean is on a £1.5million salary at Renault?

Probably. Though his manager will be taking a 60% cut. Some Fredrick Briantson chap

[Nee_Naw]

The stipulation for getting a super-licence is that the recipient has to be either a current F3 champion, or done a minimum number of races in GP2 or a similar single-seater discipline, I believe. I don't think Loeb would have had the necessary single seater track time.

I doubt that the FIA would be wanting to grant special dispensation to anyone right now, especially after the Badoer debacle.

copied from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIA_Super_Licence

To qualify for an FIA Super Licence the requesting driver must already be the holder of a Grade A competition licence, and additionally meet the requirements of the FIA International Sporting Code, Appendix L. These requirements state that the driver must be either the reigning champion in a lower category of motor sport, for example Formula 3 (British, Italian or Japanese championship, or Euroseries) or GP2 Series (formerly known as Formula 3000), or must have consistently finished well in these categories. For example, a driver finishing in the first three positions five times within the last two years in GP2 will be eligible for a Super Licence.


So basically, he's not qualified.

[TheArchitect]

Ahh isnt just because the FIA didnt want to loose its only attraction to WRC then. Shame testing is so restricted now really, I would like to see him of done a few more tests, I would certainly say LMS would be close enough to F1 but I suppose hes not done enough of it.

[plg101]

Nee_Naw said:

The stipulation for getting a super-licence is that the recipient has to be either a current F3 champion, or done a minimum number of races in GP2 or a similar single-seater discipline, I believe. I don't think Loeb would have had the necessary single seater track time.

I doubt that the FIA would be wanting to grant special dispensation to anyone right now, especially after the Badoer debacle.

copied from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIA_Super_Licence

To qualify for an FIA Super Licence the requesting driver must already be the holder of a Grade A competition licence, and additionally meet the requirements of the FIA International Sporting Code, Appendix L. These requirements state that the driver must be either the reigning champion in a lower category of motor sport, for example Formula 3 (British, Italian or Japanese championship, or Euroseries) or GP2 Series (formerly known as Formula 3000), or must have consistently finished well in these categories. For example, a driver finishing in the first three positions five times within the last two years in GP2 will be eligible for a Super Licence.

So basically, he's not qualified.

Hmm, the dangers of Wikipedia... it's only a partial quote in the WIki.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/2A9404B6E...
Section 5

With the killer line at the end, "By exception, if supported by the Safety Commission, the FIA World Motor Sport Council may approve the issue of the Super Licence to persons judged by the Council to have met the intent of the qualification process."

So basically, they could if they had wanted to, but they didn't....

Interestingly, the PDF is a marked up copy showing the changes from the last issue.

[R6dug]

Kimi had not won any championship before he got his super licence.

"Räikkönen entered Formula One as a regular driver for Sauber-Petronas in 2001. Having previously only raced in very junior open-wheel categories, he was given his Super Licence from the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA) after a performance delivery promise from his team"

Also did they not have to do so many Kilometers in a F1 car before getting a licence?

Simon

[dom180]

R6dug said:

Kimi had not won any championship before he got his super licence.

"Räikkönen entered Formula One as a regular driver for Sauber-Petronas in 2001. Having previously only raced in very junior open-wheel categories, he was given his Super Licence from the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA) after a performance delivery promise from his team"

Also did they not have to do so many Kilometers in a F1 car before getting a licence?

Simon

I think there were a couple of Formula Renault championships....

[23 car races prior to F1 - points on his debut race and no mistakes during any of the races that year... Started to outqualify Heidfeld pretty soon.....

Surely inconceivable that Kimi will only win 1 F1 championship.....]

[Jungles]

I think I must have quoted this three or four times previously.

Article 5 Appendix L of the ISC said:

5. Qualification and conditions of issue for the Super Licence

The FIA Formula One Driver Super Licence is issued by the FIA.

5.1 Qualifications

5.1.1 The driver must be the holder of a current FIA International Grade A licence.

5.1.2 The driver must also satisfy at least one of the following requirements:

a) have made at least 5 starts in races counting for the FIA Formula One World Championship for Drivers the previous year, or at least 15 starts within the previous 3 years.

b) have previously held the Super Licence and have been the regular test driver with an F1 World Championship team for the previous year.

c) been classified, within the previous 2 years, in the first 3 of the final classification of the F2 Championship, or of the final classification of the GP2 Series, or of the final classification of the GP2 Asia Series or of the final classification of the Japanese F/Nippon Championship.

d) been classified in the first 3 of the final classification of the Indy Racing League (IRL) series or of the Champ Car World Series within the previous 2 years; been classified in the first 4 of the final classification of the Indycar IRL series the previous year.
From 1.1.2010: been classified in the first 4 of the final classification of the Indycar IRL series within the previous 2 years.

e) be the current champion of one of the following:
Formula 3 Euro Series
The principal national F3 championships of: Great Britain, Italy, Japan, Spain
World Series F/Renault V6.

N.B.: the title of Champion is considered valid for 12 months from the last race of the relevant series or championship season.

f) be judged by the FIA to have consistently demonstrated outstanding ability in single-seater formula cars, but with no opportunity to qualify under any of c) to e) above. In this case the F1 team concerned must show that the applicant has driven at least 300 km in a current Formula One car consistently at racing speeds, over a maximum period of 2 days, completed not more than 90 days prior to the application and certified by the ASN of the country in which the test took place.

By exception, if supported by the Safety Commission, the FIA World Motor Sport Council may approve the issue of the Super Licence to persons judged by the Council to have met the intent of the qualification process.

Edited by Jungles on Monday 26th October 23:13

[C Lee Farquar]

Interestingly Michael Schumaker only complies with the 'intent' criteria.

[Jungles]

Schumacher was the reigning German F3 champion when he started his F1 career.

The F3 Euroseries was an amalgamation of the pre-2003 German and French F3 championships. The French F3 championship is now completely defunct. The Germans have since formed their own national championship for drivers who can't afford a place in the Euroseries.

Edited by Jungles on Tuesday 27th October 12:20

[plg101]

C Lee Farquar said:

Interestingly Michael Schumaker only complies with the 'intent' criteria.

I think he means Schumacher only qualifies for re-entry to F1 today based on the "intent" criteria, rather than back in 91 when he entered by normal means?