Mclaren & Mercedes Split
Discussion
Several news paper stories including http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/a... indicate that the deal will be announced soon!
Just wondered what everyone else thought about this. I'm hoping Mclaren will have the finds to keep developing and moving forward. I'm also hoping at some point they will be able to build their own engines which will be just as powerful and reliable as Mercedes!
Just wondered what everyone else thought about this. I'm hoping Mclaren will have the finds to keep developing and moving forward. I'm also hoping at some point they will be able to build their own engines which will be just as powerful and reliable as Mercedes!
GTO Scott said:
TimesOnline said:
This week it will be announced that Mercedes-Benz has sold its shareholding in McLaren and will be taking a majority stake in Brawn GP. McLaren will continue with Mercedes engines, but Brawn will become the works team.
Business as usual then?
McLaren's graphics department headed up by Diana Kaye and her team will be working on new 'Vodafone' friendly colours long with whichever other top tier partners McLaren unveil in 2010. If M-B go, Mobil will follow and McLaren are no doubt taling to the likes of BP, Texaco, and others to get money, lubricants and fuel by the truckload. That catagory of sponsor is well in excess of 20 million pounds per annum on the car.
Am I alone in feeling that Mercedes' excitement to buy into Brawn is a case of short-term thinking ?? OK, so Brawn pulled a fairly large rabbit out the hat this year, but by the end of the season Red Bull and arguably McLaren were the quicker cars.
So, if McLaren have a blinder of a season next year, Red Bull do well and Brawn struggle to be consistent top 3 finishers, what's the benefit of buying into them for MB given they already own 40% of McLaren ?
I'm just struggling to see the longer term benefits, unless MB had decided to do this ages ago due to all of the issues arising from Australia and the less than glowing publicity which McLaren attracted with the whole 'spygate' affair.....
Nick M said:
Am I alone in feeling that Mercedes' excitement to buy into Brawn is a case of short-term thinking ?? OK, so Brawn pulled a fairly large rabbit out the hat this year, but by the end of the season Red Bull and arguably McLaren were the quicker cars.
So, if McLaren have a blinder of a season next year, Red Bull do well and Brawn struggle to be consistent top 3 finishers, what's the benefit of buying into them for MB given they already own 40% of McLaren ?
I'm just struggling to see the longer term benefits, unless MB had decided to do this ages ago due to all of the issues arising from Australia and the less than glowing publicity which McLaren attracted with the whole 'spygate' affair.....
Mercedes want their own team, which Mclaren are not willing to do. Brawn will probably not be so reluctant to hand over the team - it would make the directors very rich men indeed, while free to carry on with the team pretty much as before.So, if McLaren have a blinder of a season next year, Red Bull do well and Brawn struggle to be consistent top 3 finishers, what's the benefit of buying into them for MB given they already own 40% of McLaren ?
I'm just struggling to see the longer term benefits, unless MB had decided to do this ages ago due to all of the issues arising from Australia and the less than glowing publicity which McLaren attracted with the whole 'spygate' affair.....
Rollcage said:
Mercedes want their own team
At the risk of asking a daft question, why ??!I can understand that the McLaren name might be a bit tarnished, and by association, that of MB too. But I'm surprised that MB want to commit a bunch more cash to another team, which let's face it doesn't have much of a track record. Is it realistic to expect the success of 2009 to be sustained ?
Carry on the engine supply deal by all means, but given there are still two years of their deal with McLaren left I don't see why they have to jump in bed with Brawn now. Unless they're worried someone else will, but whom ??
Nick M said:
Am I alone in feeling that Mercedes' excitement to buy into Brawn is a case of short-term thinking ?? OK, so Brawn pulled a fairly large rabbit out the hat this year, but by the end of the season Red Bull and arguably McLaren were the quicker cars.
So, if McLaren have a blinder of a season next year, Red Bull do well and Brawn struggle to be consistent top 3 finishers, what's the benefit of buying into them for MB given they already own 40% of McLaren ?
I'm just struggling to see the longer term benefits, unless MB had decided to do this ages ago due to all of the issues arising from Australia and the less than glowing publicity which McLaren attracted with the whole 'spygate' affair.....
If memory serves, M-B were the same long-term-thinking rocket scientists who pissed away quite a few billions investing in Mitsubishi and quite a few more billions in Chrysler. So, if McLaren have a blinder of a season next year, Red Bull do well and Brawn struggle to be consistent top 3 finishers, what's the benefit of buying into them for MB given they already own 40% of McLaren ?
I'm just struggling to see the longer term benefits, unless MB had decided to do this ages ago due to all of the issues arising from Australia and the less than glowing publicity which McLaren attracted with the whole 'spygate' affair.....
If they want to have their own team under their own name, fine. Obviously, having 100% of an also-ran may be less good than having 40% of a top team that you do not control but that bears your name in part. Maybe McLaren will sink like a stone, whilst Brawn will be the McLaren of the next 40 years, but that does seem unlikely.
Even if one thought that it did make sense to switch affiliations, the reason for doing it immediately is not obvious. It looks like M-B will have to pay a big price for leaving 2 years early, and in doing so they will lose the ability to leverage off Hamilton, who certainly is now and is likely to remain the most marketable name amongst current drivers.
Is there anything irresistibly compelling about making the change now, rather than in 24 months? If so, it's not obvious.
unless mb know something about the 2010 brawn that we dont? I did read somewhere that illmor (i refuse to call it mb) got alot out of the relationship with brawn development wise, maybe mb are hoping for more of the same? I doubt mclaren will struggle anyway, probably tout a great name to make engines, or just do it themselves
Edited by Richard-G on Monday 16th November 08:23
It seems an odd move to me although, of course, not a surprise. We've known about it for some time.
What are Brawn going to give MB that McL can't?
From McL's point of view not being involved in the development of the engine will harm them to an extent but they've got the expertise to overcome this. They still are the ones to beat.
Unless this is a take-over the move baffles me. There was a suggestion that they did not like RD moving on but I can't see that as the reason for McL's fall from grace.
Merc are likely to be the only manufacturer of engines, other than Ferrari, remaining in the sport so what are they going to get out of it? Money from the sales ain't going to be much. If they start suply duff seconds to other teams in order to favour their own then the sport will suffer so they will not get full return on their investment. If they are fair and above board, paint Brawns silver then they will look a bit stupid when other cars beat them.
The longest partnership in F1 I think and it has come to an end.
What are Brawn going to give MB that McL can't?
From McL's point of view not being involved in the development of the engine will harm them to an extent but they've got the expertise to overcome this. They still are the ones to beat.
Unless this is a take-over the move baffles me. There was a suggestion that they did not like RD moving on but I can't see that as the reason for McL's fall from grace.
Merc are likely to be the only manufacturer of engines, other than Ferrari, remaining in the sport so what are they going to get out of it? Money from the sales ain't going to be much. If they start suply duff seconds to other teams in order to favour their own then the sport will suffer so they will not get full return on their investment. If they are fair and above board, paint Brawns silver then they will look a bit stupid when other cars beat them.
The longest partnership in F1 I think and it has come to an end.
Derek Smith said:
It seems an odd move to me although, of course, not a surprise. We've known about it for some time.
What are Brawn going to give MB that McL can't?
Full control, either in the short or medium term. Mercedes will be able to sign who they want, they'll be able to control pretty much 100% of the team and, no doubt, after next season (if not sooner) the Brawn name will disappear and the team will be fully fledged Mercedes. What are Brawn going to give MB that McL can't?
Even though the McLaren partnership is a strong one, it's still been that old feeling of McLaren being the experts and Mercedes being their engine supplier. Their own Mercedes team would marry both the powertrain and chassis as being all the work of the manufacturer and benefactor.
It makes sense, assuming a deal to buy McLaren in its entirety and eventually remove the McLaren name was either too expensive or impossible with McLaren's current shareholders.
DangerousMike said:
don't forget that Mercedes and McLaren are now competitors in a section of the road car marketplace.
This is what I thought they were cheesed off about, the fact that Mclaren decided to put their own engine in the MP4-12 thingy.Ron wants Mclaren to be like Ferrari, and to an extent I understand.
dirty boy said:
DangerousMike said:
don't forget that Mercedes and McLaren are now competitors in a section of the road car marketplace.
This is what I thought they were cheesed off about, the fact that Mclaren decided to put their own engine in the MP4-12 thingy.Ron wants Mclaren to be like Ferrari, and to an extent I understand.
If the coup comes off and we see Mclaren (LH&JB) vs MercBrawn(NR&NH) it will be great Are we going to be humming along to "Coming Home" again next summer? 
and just to stir things up we have:
Are we going to be humming along to "Coming Home" again next summer? and just to stir things up we have:
Massa said:
Let’s hope that we can give our fans some satisfaction in 2010, Fernando and I really want to be the best couple in Formula One.
I always thought merc were quite astute for limiting their involvement in F1 to engine supply, they're in a better position financially to offer long term commitment, a better position to pull out should they wish too without being seen as fycking anyone over, and a better position to be seen as winners when linked to one of the most prestigious names in motor racing, ever.
As for the scandals it was always seen as a "mclaren" thing, while mercedes still reaped rewards of being a technical partner when the winning was done. Win-win situation IMO.
If this is true it's a poor decision by mercs, I don't think the brawns gonna be so good next year- their success was heavily based on the dodgy diffuser and once the likes of mclaren etc caught up brawn didn't do to well. JB won the season in the first 7 races, taking 61 points in 7 races. In the next 10 races he took 34 points and was 6th placed, beind kimi, lewis and both RB drivers. Given the evolutionary nature of next years car I'm sceptical they can repeat their success, with RB and mclaren faster and ferrari very likely to improve.
As for the scandals it was always seen as a "mclaren" thing, while mercedes still reaped rewards of being a technical partner when the winning was done. Win-win situation IMO.
If this is true it's a poor decision by mercs, I don't think the brawns gonna be so good next year- their success was heavily based on the dodgy diffuser and once the likes of mclaren etc caught up brawn didn't do to well. JB won the season in the first 7 races, taking 61 points in 7 races. In the next 10 races he took 34 points and was 6th placed, beind kimi, lewis and both RB drivers. Given the evolutionary nature of next years car I'm sceptical they can repeat their success, with RB and mclaren faster and ferrari very likely to improve.
Edited by hairyben on Monday 16th November 10:44
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