Alonso better than Raikkonen at development says Stafano
Discussion
From James Allens' excellent site. Don't think we're too surprised about this:
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2009/12/alonso-is-be...
>>Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali has shed a little more light on the decision to drop Kimi Raikkonen and hire Fernando Alonso, saying that Alonso is a better development driver, more in the mould of Michael Schumacher and that is what the team needs.
Domenic
Domenicali’s comments will dismay Raikkonen, who has just signed a contract to compete in the World Rally Championship. I have checked with Ferrari and the quotes are genuine. They are downplaying the Raikkonen comments as ’superficial’, however they say that the sentiments about Alonso are what the team feels at this time.
Domenicali was quoted yesterday in German tabloid Auto Bild saying, “Ferrari needs someone for the team similar to Schumi.”
Referring to Raikkonen he said, “In a car that is capable of winning, he was and is perfect. But if the car needs to be developed and the team fired up, Alonso is better.”
Alonso has always talked up his ability to develop a car, famously during his time at McLaren, claiming to have brought almost a second per lap to the car.
After a disappointing season, Ferrari has to deliver a fast car and compete for both championships next season. Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has issued the clarion call and it is up to Domenicali and his technical team to deliver. Another season like 2009 and the pressure will begin to mount on some of the technical managers.
Domenicali described Raikkonen as “very fast, but also very closed”. This is a criticism of Raikkonen that one heard from the team throughout his time there. He was hired by Jean Todt in 2006 and when explaining his reasons for taking Raikkonen, Todt said that Raikkonen did not speak too much, which he saw as a strength. He focussed on driving the car.
But over time it became clear that while this was a positive in some senses, the team was looking to him for more leadership.
But perhaps they did not understand the Finn. His many fans certainly do; they appreciate his no-nonsense approach to racing and his refusal to complain or make excuses.
When it was announced in September 2006 that Raikkonen would replace Schumacher at Ferrari, his friend Tony Wilander made some telling comments, “How will the Ferrari team be with Kimi? Very different from Schumacher’s. Let’s not forget that Michael arrived at Ferrari together with people who had already worked with him at Benetton. Kimi, by contrast, doesn’t know anyone.
“On top of that, Kimi’s less of a perfectionist, and he will not visit the factory as often. However, I’m sure it will be enough to win the championship.”
Domenicali also spoke about the relationship between Alonso and Felipe Massa, which will be one of the real talking points of next season, in comparison with what happened between Alonso and Lewis Hamilton at McLaren. “I’ve spoken to Fernando about (what happened at) McLaren. He felt betrayed, and also (said) that his relationship with Lewis was not always correct. At Maranello that will not happen. I can guarantee that,” he added.
On the surface, comments like these are little more than tittle-tattle and yet they need to be noted. People like Domenicali do not need to say such things unless they have a reason. These things are markers. Sometimes the comments come back to haunt them, such as Ron Dennis’ observation beforethe 2007 season about Alonso that they had talked through Hamilton’s long relationship with the team and that there would be no problems of favouritism.<<
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2009/12/alonso-is-be...
>>Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali has shed a little more light on the decision to drop Kimi Raikkonen and hire Fernando Alonso, saying that Alonso is a better development driver, more in the mould of Michael Schumacher and that is what the team needs.
Domenic
Domenicali’s comments will dismay Raikkonen, who has just signed a contract to compete in the World Rally Championship. I have checked with Ferrari and the quotes are genuine. They are downplaying the Raikkonen comments as ’superficial’, however they say that the sentiments about Alonso are what the team feels at this time.
Domenicali was quoted yesterday in German tabloid Auto Bild saying, “Ferrari needs someone for the team similar to Schumi.”
Referring to Raikkonen he said, “In a car that is capable of winning, he was and is perfect. But if the car needs to be developed and the team fired up, Alonso is better.”
Alonso has always talked up his ability to develop a car, famously during his time at McLaren, claiming to have brought almost a second per lap to the car.
After a disappointing season, Ferrari has to deliver a fast car and compete for both championships next season. Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has issued the clarion call and it is up to Domenicali and his technical team to deliver. Another season like 2009 and the pressure will begin to mount on some of the technical managers.
Domenicali described Raikkonen as “very fast, but also very closed”. This is a criticism of Raikkonen that one heard from the team throughout his time there. He was hired by Jean Todt in 2006 and when explaining his reasons for taking Raikkonen, Todt said that Raikkonen did not speak too much, which he saw as a strength. He focussed on driving the car.
But over time it became clear that while this was a positive in some senses, the team was looking to him for more leadership.
But perhaps they did not understand the Finn. His many fans certainly do; they appreciate his no-nonsense approach to racing and his refusal to complain or make excuses.
When it was announced in September 2006 that Raikkonen would replace Schumacher at Ferrari, his friend Tony Wilander made some telling comments, “How will the Ferrari team be with Kimi? Very different from Schumacher’s. Let’s not forget that Michael arrived at Ferrari together with people who had already worked with him at Benetton. Kimi, by contrast, doesn’t know anyone.
“On top of that, Kimi’s less of a perfectionist, and he will not visit the factory as often. However, I’m sure it will be enough to win the championship.”
Domenicali also spoke about the relationship between Alonso and Felipe Massa, which will be one of the real talking points of next season, in comparison with what happened between Alonso and Lewis Hamilton at McLaren. “I’ve spoken to Fernando about (what happened at) McLaren. He felt betrayed, and also (said) that his relationship with Lewis was not always correct. At Maranello that will not happen. I can guarantee that,” he added.
On the surface, comments like these are little more than tittle-tattle and yet they need to be noted. People like Domenicali do not need to say such things unless they have a reason. These things are markers. Sometimes the comments come back to haunt them, such as Ron Dennis’ observation beforethe 2007 season about Alonso that they had talked through Hamilton’s long relationship with the team and that there would be no problems of favouritism.<<
dom180 said:
More fool Ferrari then for hiring him. And they have to justify the Alonso move - wonder how long Alonso will stay at the team..... 
I think he'll be happy there. I don't think Feleipe will be too great a problem. Then again i thioght the same about Vettel and Webber but was wrong... 
heebeegeetee said:
dom180 said:
More fool Ferrari then for hiring him. And they have to justify the Alonso move - wonder how long Alonso will stay at the team.....
I think he'll be happy there. I don't think Feleipe will be too great a problem. Then again i thioght the same about Vettel and Webber but was wrong... heebeegeetee said:
dom180 said:
More fool Ferrari then for hiring him. And they have to justify the Alonso move - wonder how long Alonso will stay at the team.....
I think he'll be happy there. I don't think Feleipe will be too great a problem. Then again i thioght the same about Vettel and Webber but was wrong... My money is on Massa - already winning karting races. All he has to do is be faster than Alonso and the team will love him.
dom180 said:
heebeegeetee said:
dom180 said:
More fool Ferrari then for hiring him. And they have to justify the Alonso move - wonder how long Alonso will stay at the team.....
I think he'll be happy there. I don't think Feleipe will be too great a problem. Then again i thioght the same about Vettel and Webber but was wrong... My money is on Massa - already winning karting races. All he has to do is be faster than Alonso and the team will love him.
stockhatcher said:
dom180 said:
heebeegeetee said:
dom180 said:
More fool Ferrari then for hiring him. And they have to justify the Alonso move - wonder how long Alonso will stay at the team.....
I think he'll be happy there. I don't think Feleipe will be too great a problem. Then again i thioght the same about Vettel and Webber but was wrong... My money is on Massa - already winning karting races. All he has to do is be faster than Alonso and the team will love him.
Edit: Surely Stefano couldn't be trying to blame Raikkonen for his shortcomings following Todt's departure - slagging off Kimi to avoid critisism of a poor 2009 performance - now that Todt's gone and the team's competitiveness slips. I don't think Todt would have allowed this sort of treatment of an ex-Ferrari World Champion.
Edited by dom180 on Sunday 6th December 17:55
DSM2 said:
Clearly Ferrari don't rate Massa that highly in terms of development and team leading. Quite understandably in my opinion, as there is no evidence of any of those abilities.
I guess they expected that from KR and were disappointed, like many others.
No need to wash their dirty laundry in public though - Todt would have had the class and nous to avoid doing so. And Ferrari's treatment of Raikkonen in the press this year has been pretty disgraceful imho. I think the statement issued says a lot more about Dominicali than it does about Raikkonen. I wonder how long Dominicali will last at Ferrari. Concentrate more on leading and developing next years car not blaming the 2007 World Champion - all seems to be unravelling without Todt...I guess they expected that from KR and were disappointed, like many others.
dom180 said:
DSM2 said:
Clearly Ferrari don't rate Massa that highly in terms of development and team leading. Quite understandably in my opinion, as there is no evidence of any of those abilities.
I guess they expected that from KR and were disappointed, like many others.
No need to wash their dirty laundry in public though - Todt would have had the class and nous to avoid doing so. And Ferrari's treatment of Raikkonen in the press this year has been pretty disgraceful imho. I think the statement issued says a lot more about Dominicali than it does about Raikkonen. I wonder how long Dominicali will last at Ferrari. Concentrate more on leading and developing next years car not blaming the 2007 World Champion - all seems to be unravelling without Todt...I guess they expected that from KR and were disappointed, like many others.
However, for me, it was not that big a surprise as far as KR is concerned but to be saying, in effect, the same about FM is hardly going to inspire confidence in him. Maybe there isn't much?
A year or two ago there was a story that Mr Massa would be buying STR for young Felipe once he was finished with driving. That may be sooner rather than later it seems.
We have the promise of some exciting contests next year. Alonso/Massa and them two English chaps in the totally English team. I know which way I think both will go but I've been wrong before. I remember reading about J Villeneuve, about how he was the business and would show that English second-rater the way to go. I liked Hill. He seemed a genuine bloke and he did a sterling job in taking over the seat vacated by Senna. But I had my doubts as to his abilities. Fair enough, he learnt quickly and once lapped Prost, but JV’s undoubted abilities would put him in the shade. Villeneuve's first F1 race showed me how wrong I was.
I've got to say Alonso impressed me as a Renault driver. His move to McLaren was destined to bring the WDC to Woking. Could there be any doubt? I didn't have any, especially as he was up against a rookie. I know there was a lot of hype, especially from FA himself, but it was obviously well-founded.
Going back a bit and we had Mansell against the driver who was supposed to be the best driver for decades: Nelson Piquet. I never rated 'Our Nige' as a gifted, natural driver. He seemed to wrestle his cars rather than drive them. Piquet - well! I was a big fan of Brabham and I agreed with those who reckoned it would be a walk-over for him. Mansell was derided by the cognoscenti – and by me to a lesser extent.
The thing about F1 is how unpredictable it is. If you look at the bare stats then you will be no better informed as to ability. Alonso double WDC will obviously trounce Massa.
Alonso had the best car on the grid for three seasons. He won the WDC twice. Will his Ferrari experience mirror that of Renault or McLaren. Criticise Dennis all you want but if the Ferrari team don’t like you then RD would seem like Miss Jean Brodie.
I will have a bet for this coming season with my mates. I can’t pick a McLaren driver (for reasons which will bore you). However, I’ve got a free choice with all the others. I doubt I will pick Alonso.
I've got to say Alonso impressed me as a Renault driver. His move to McLaren was destined to bring the WDC to Woking. Could there be any doubt? I didn't have any, especially as he was up against a rookie. I know there was a lot of hype, especially from FA himself, but it was obviously well-founded.
Going back a bit and we had Mansell against the driver who was supposed to be the best driver for decades: Nelson Piquet. I never rated 'Our Nige' as a gifted, natural driver. He seemed to wrestle his cars rather than drive them. Piquet - well! I was a big fan of Brabham and I agreed with those who reckoned it would be a walk-over for him. Mansell was derided by the cognoscenti – and by me to a lesser extent.
The thing about F1 is how unpredictable it is. If you look at the bare stats then you will be no better informed as to ability. Alonso double WDC will obviously trounce Massa.
Alonso had the best car on the grid for three seasons. He won the WDC twice. Will his Ferrari experience mirror that of Renault or McLaren. Criticise Dennis all you want but if the Ferrari team don’t like you then RD would seem like Miss Jean Brodie.
I will have a bet for this coming season with my mates. I can’t pick a McLaren driver (for reasons which will bore you). However, I’ve got a free choice with all the others. I doubt I will pick Alonso.
Derek Smith said:
We have the promise of some exciting contests next year. Alonso/Massa and them two English chaps in the totally English team. I know which way I think both will go but I've been wrong before. I remember reading about J Villeneuve, about how he was the business and would show that English second-rater the way to go. I liked Hill. He seemed a genuine bloke and he did a sterling job in taking over the seat vacated by Senna. But I had my doubts as to his abilities. Fair enough, he learnt quickly and once lapped Prost, but JV’s undoubted abilities would put him in the shade. Villeneuve's first F1 race showed me how wrong I was.
JV's first race that he lead from pole, overtook Hill for position and was only denied by an oil leak.... Edit: I rate Hill - he outqualified Prost in France - as teammate Senna never managed that and Damon's victory in Suzuka in '94, in the wet was up there with the best of anyones imho. But JV could drive too. Agree with your sentiment though.
Edited by dom180 on Sunday 6th December 23:27
dom180 said:
Derek Smith said:
We have the promise of some exciting contests next year. Alonso/Massa and them two English chaps in the totally English team. I know which way I think both will go but I've been wrong before. I remember reading about J Villeneuve, about how he was the business and would show that English second-rater the way to go. I liked Hill. He seemed a genuine bloke and he did a sterling job in taking over the seat vacated by Senna. But I had my doubts as to his abilities. Fair enough, he learnt quickly and once lapped Prost, but JV’s undoubted abilities would put him in the shade. Villeneuve's first F1 race showed me how wrong I was.
JV's first race that he lead from pole, overtook Hill for position and was only denied by an oil leak.... Edit: I rate Hill - he outqualified Prost in France - as teammate Senna never managed that and Damon's victory in Suzuka in '94, in the wet was up there with the best of anyones imho. But JV could drive too. Agree with your sentiment though.
Edited by dom180 on Sunday 6th December 23:27
johnfelstead said:
JV's first race that he lead from pole, overtook Hill for position and was only denied by an oil leak....
Edit: I rate Hill - he outqualified Prost in France - as teammate Senna never managed that and Damon's victory in Suzuka in '94, in the wet was up there with the best of anyones imho. But JV could drive too. Agree with your sentiment though.
I was in a crowd which Head addressed, a small crowd. In fact it was almost one-to-one. We were mates. Nearly. I was at the back and rather stupidly still had my earplugs in and by the time I'd levered them out he was going. So most of this is what I got from others.Edit: I rate Hill - he outqualified Prost in France - as teammate Senna never managed that and Damon's victory in Suzuka in '94, in the wet was up there with the best of anyones imho. But JV could drive too. Agree with your sentiment though.
Head was asked about Villeneuve's abilities and he gave some throwaway line about his championship year being a fight between engineers and JV, the latter, in Head's opinion, nearly throwing away the WDC due to his wierd setup demands. Someone mentioned his first 'spectacular' race and near success. Even with my earplugs in I could see Head's expression of, perhaps contempt is too strong a word as he looks grumpy at the best of times.
Whilst I never got his actual words, he said that Hill was cruising, so much so that he used very little fuel. It was apparent that JV's car had a fatal problem and Hill evidently just swanned about behind him waiting for the inevitable.
I remember Hill's car being smothered in oil. I thought it remarkable that JV's car kept going so long.
JV was one for the mind games, chatting to the third place bloke behind Hill's back during post-race interviews sticks in my mind. Didn't he throw Hill's food away a couple of times? As a joke, obviously. I always felt that that might be a weakness of Hill's. He certainly suffered in the mind game war with Schumacher.
I never really rated Hill snr as a driver. It was the comparison with Clark I suppose. It was only later that I realised that it takes someone special to do what he did without the natural advantages of, say, Clark. As you say, the son was similar to the father in that respect but in others, very different.
Damon Hill seemed the very antithesis of the kind of GP driver we were used to: Senna, Prost, Piquet and, of course, Schuey. There seemed a lack of conceit, self absorption was absent and he was almost self deprecating at times. I got to say I took to him. Until things got really serious, he seemed to enjoy racing.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
PS, the quotes have gone wrong, i didn't say that quote above re Alonso the second a lap thing.For the record though, i have no probs with Alonso, he's one of the best out there and is extremely competitive.
Nobody foresaw how good Lewis was going to be in his first year, and tbh i reckon any self-respecting team-mate would have felt he'd had his nose put out of joint.
stockhatcher said:
dom180 said:
heebeegeetee said:
dom180 said:
More fool Ferrari then for hiring him. And they have to justify the Alonso move - wonder how long Alonso will stay at the team.....
I think he'll be happy there. I don't think Feleipe will be too great a problem. Then again i thioght the same about Vettel and Webber but was wrong... My money is on Massa - already winning karting races. All he has to do is be faster than Alonso and the team will love him.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
If you ask Damon, he will say himself that he wasn't the most naturally gifted of drivers, that he had to work hard at it. He is also very open about how he wasn't equipped at the time to cope with the pressures that came with being such a high profile F1 driver. Read his very recent interview in Motorsport, it's quite enlightening.I've been a fan of Damon for a long time, pride of place on my living room wall is a signed drawing of him in the 93 car. I've met him quite a few times now through work and this has always reinforced my opinion of what a genuinely good bloke he is and that he has a real passion for motorsport, not just F1. Saying he wasn't the most natural doesn't detract from him, if anything it adds to his stature as he managed to overcome a lot of pressures both on and off the track that people with much more natural talent couldn't do.
Head and Williams never fully appreciated what Damon could do, and they didn't give him the moral support he needed to grow into the role as quickly as he could, his 95 season was a disaster driven in a big part by Damon's inability to cope mentally with the pressures. By the time 96 came around he had sorted that out, but it was too late by then as far as Williams was concerned, they had already signed Frentzen so he was out at year end. That is the pity of Damon's career, he just wasn't equipped early on and that limited his success, he would have walked 97 had he been kept on at Williams IMHO.
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