Why Jenson Jumped?

[kbird]

Theory:

Jenson’s getting no joy with a sensible deal from Brawn GP and knows that Mercedes are in the wings and Nico has already signed. Then he hears that Ross, Michael and Norbert etc are in discussion, what would you do? He’s out of contract and so is Michael, Mercedes are taking over the team and only have one driver slot and it looks like a deal is being negotiated with arguable the greatest driver ever!

‘Martin, where do I sign?’

[kevin ritson]

It was clear a couple of weeks ago when the stories were published:

Mercedes agree terms to take over Brawn, Rosberg signed. Mercedes board losing interest, so buying a winning team and making it the 'German national team' captures their imagination. Number one priority is getting Vettel, the best prospect of championships right now. Button gets wind of this and knows he's likely to be a placeholder until Seb's out of contract in 2011. Stay with a team where you know you're not wanted by the management (especially if they were talking to Schuey in Abu Dhabi) or take advantage of being World Champion? It could be the wrong move but with so many seats changing hands this year what will be available in twelve months' time?

[lauda]

kbird said:

Theory:

Jenson’s getting no joy with a sensible deal from Brawn GP and knows that Mercedes are in the wings and Nico has already signed. Then he hears that Ross, Michael and Norbert etc are in discussion, what would you do? He’s out of contract and so is Michael, Mercedes are taking over the team and only have one driver slot and it looks like a deal is being negotiated with arguable the greatest driver ever!

‘Martin, where do I sign?’

I'm not sure the situation is as complex as you suggest. Button wanted to secure himself a seat at a team with a car which would give him the best chance of winning another championship.

The Brawn car went backwards in terms of development throughout the 2009 season and one can't help but draw the conclusion that they got lucky on their double difuser design early on and a lot of other teams had to play catch-up. And which team did that most successfully (not counting Red Bull who also started the season with a double difuser)? McLaren.

It seems that the deal which Button has signed with McLaren is not significantly more generous in financial terms than the one that Brawn had tabled so I don't think money was an important factor in chosing between the two. More important is the fact that McLaren have a long-term, proven history of building championship winning cars. Brawn, which is just the Honda team rebranded, doesn't. I know where I'd be signing.

And if my post sounds dismissive of the achievements of Brawn this year, it's not intended to, what they did was fantastic. I'm just not convinced that they will as competitive next season.

[AlexS]

lauda said:

kbird said:

Theory:

Jenson’s getting no joy with a sensible deal from Brawn GP and knows that Mercedes are in the wings and Nico has already signed. Then he hears that Ross, Michael and Norbert etc are in discussion, what would you do? He’s out of contract and so is Michael, Mercedes are taking over the team and only have one driver slot and it looks like a deal is being negotiated with arguable the greatest driver ever!

‘Martin, where do I sign?’

I'm not sure the situation is as complex as you suggest. Button wanted to secure himself a seat at a team with a car which would give him the best chance of winning another championship.

The Brawn car went backwards in terms of development throughout the 2009 season and one can't help but draw the conclusion that they got lucky on their double difuser design early on and a lot of other teams had to play catch-up. And which team did that most successfully (not counting Red Bull who also started the season with a double difuser)? McLaren.

It seems that the deal which Button has signed with McLaren is not significantly more generous in financial terms than the one that Brawn had tabled so I don't think money was an important factor in chosing between the two. More important is the fact that McLaren have a long-term, proven history of building championship winning cars. Brawn, which is just the Honda team rebranded, doesn't. I know where I'd be signing.

And if my post sounds dismissive of the achievements of Brawn this year, it's not intended to, what they did was fantastic. I'm just not convinced that they will as competitive next season.

The RBR didn't start the season with a double diffuser.

[lauda]

AlexS said:

The RBR didn't start the season with a double diffuser.

A quick Google confirms that you are indeed correct!

[kevin ritson]

lauda said:

The Brawn car went backwards in terms of development throughout the 2009 season and one can't help but draw the conclusion that they got lucky on their double difuser design early on and a lot of other teams had to play catch-up. And which team did that most successfully (not counting Red Bull who also started the season with a double difuser)? McLaren.

You don't 'get lucky' in F1. Honda knew they were in trouble when they hired Ross Brawn and they knew what they were getting for their yen. He looked at what they had, saw it was lacking and decided to concentrate on the following year's rule changes - a smart idea. Whilst finding a trick diffuser in the regs helped, he was keen to give away that advantage by offering to close the loophole he'd found before the regs were set in stone, so must have known his team could make a decent car without it. And in any case the aerodynamics need to work from the front of the car onwards, meaning the rest of the design had to be sound.

BAR was formed with a large budget and the team was cherry-picked from the entire F1 talent pool. What was lacking was that they took a long time to gel. By the time Honda had made a mess of things a pretty good team was in place, it just lacked design direction which Ross provided. What Mercedes must be mindful of now is that they have properly observed the mistakes made by manufacturers over the last decade and do not repeat them.

[philis]

This year he was in an all British team, fighting zee German(s)

next year will will be no different.

Edited by philis on Sunday 13th December 16:34

[35secToNuvolari]

I think Jenson went to Mclaren because he wants the challenge of driving against Hamilton.

[Podie]

35secToNuvolari said:

I think Jenson went to Mclaren because he wants the challenge of driving against Hamilton.

Maybe.

From what I heard, Button wanted £6m, Brawn offered £4m - McLaren offered more, so he jumped.

Be interesting to see if Hamilton is worth his £12m...

[FNG]

Podie said:

Maybe.

From what I heard, Button wanted £6m, Brawn offered £4m - McLaren offered more, so he jumped.

Be interesting to see if Hamilton is worth his £12m...

From what I heard, Brawn offered at least as much as McLaren did, but Button wanted a new challenge because another WDC with Brawn - the best he could possibly hope for - would be "more of the same" whereas beating Hamilton in his own team would represent a new level of achievement.

From what Brawn have said, the move wasn't money oriented. Brawn couldn't offer a new challenge so he looked elsewhere.

[andy97]

I've heard from a Mclaren employee that Button is actually going to be paid less than was on the table at Brawn/ Merc

[spunkytherabbit]

Podie said:

35secToNuvolari said:

I think Jenson went to Mclaren because he wants the challenge of driving against Hamilton.

Maybe.

From what I heard, Button wanted £6m, Brawn offered £4m - McLaren offered more, so he jumped.

Be interesting to see if Hamilton is worth his £12m...

Sorry that's complete rubbish. Ross Brawn has already said publicly that the Mclaren deal is less than what Brawn GP ultimately offered and Button's motivation was to test himself once and for all on equal terms with another WDC. I quote 'I have a lot of respect for Jenson wanting to do that'.

[DSM2]

spunkytherabbit said:

Podie said:

35secToNuvolari said:

I think Jenson went to Mclaren because he wants the challenge of driving against Hamilton.

Maybe.

From what I heard, Button wanted £6m, Brawn offered £4m - McLaren offered more, so he jumped.

Be interesting to see if Hamilton is worth his £12m...

Sorry that's complete rubbish. Ross Brawn has already said publicly that the Mclaren deal is less than what Brawn GP ultimately offered and Button's motivation was to test himself once and for all on equal terms with another WDC. I quote 'I have a lot of respect for Jenson wanting to do that'.

Well that's certainly more likely.


Ruben's was back at the factory last week for a quick thank you and Jock Clear is to be Rosberg's engineer, leaving the Champion's engineer free for.....?

[hairyben]

kevin ritson said:

What Mercedes must be mindful of now is that they have properly observed the mistakes made by manufacturers over the last decade and do not repeat them.

Mercs' ego trip has already begun by 1) deciding they can do better than mclaren and 2) deciding certain nationality drivers are better than everyone else. The rot is beginning IMHO. mcmerc worked because mclaren were powerfull enough to keep the glory hunting tts in suits from interfering with the racing team stuff, I doubt Brawn and Fry as mere employees can stand up in the same way.

Jens saw this coming and bailed.

Furthermore, Jens/Brawn won the championship with that suss diffuser in the first 7 races. Once the others caught up, with the next ten races in isolation Jens scored 6th place. The Brawn isn't the car many seem to think it is IMO.

Edited by hairyben on Monday 14th December 16:52

[die fahrt]

hairyben said:

kevin ritson said:

What Mercedes must be mindful of now is that they have properly observed the mistakes made by manufacturers over the last decade and do not repeat them.

Mercs' ego trip has already begun by 1) deciding they can do better than mclaren and 2) deciding certain nationality drivers are better than everyone else. The rot is beginning IMHO. mcmerc worked because mclaren were powerfull enough to keep the glory hunting tts in suits from interfering with the racing team stuff, I doubt Brawn and Fry as mere employees can stand up in the same way.

Jens saw this coming and bailed.

Furthermore, Jens/Brawn won the championship with that suss diffuser in the first 7 races. Once the others caught up, with the next ten races in isolation Jens scored 6th place. The Brawn isn't the car many seem to think it is IMO.

Edited by hairyben on Monday 14th December 16:52

Mercedes have said again and again that they had a preference for one german driver - and that was it.
Where have all these stories come from that they want an all German lineup?
I don't see Ferrari fielding any italian drivers, nor renault with the french.

[Muzzer]

My theory?

Mercedes want Vettel - everyone knows that - and they want it to happen for the start of 2011.

Jenson knows aswell and knows that if he stays with Mercedes, it'll be either him or Rosberg getting the elbow at the end of next year.

Rosberg is German, Button isn't, plus I'll bet my bottom dollar that Rosberg's contract is longer than 1 year.

So, Jenson probably had a 1 year contract on offer at Mercedes or a 3 year deal at McLaren. I know what I'd do.

Worst case scenario, he gets beaten by Lewis, picks up a cheque for the next 3 years and maybe even picks up the odd win when Lewis falters.

Best case scenario at Mercedes is, barring a meteoric year where he completely wipes the floor with Rosberg (unlikely to that extent) he does well for a year and is then looking for another drive.

All this talk of money and German super teams is smoke IMO. It's all about length of contracts.

[DSM2]

hairyben said:

kevin ritson said:

What Mercedes must be mindful of now is that they have properly observed the mistakes made by manufacturers over the last decade and do not repeat them.

Mercs' ego trip has already begun by 1) deciding they can do better than mclaren and 2) deciding certain nationality drivers are better than everyone else. The rot is beginning IMHO. mcmerc worked because mclaren were powerfull enough to keep the glory hunting tts in suits from interfering with the racing team stuff, I doubt Brawn and Fry as mere employees can stand up in the same way.

Jens saw this coming and bailed.

Furthermore, Jens/Brawn won the championship with that suss diffuser in the first 7 races. Once the others caught up, with the next ten races in isolation Jens scored 6th place. The Brawn isn't the car many seem to think it is IMO.

Edited by hairyben on Monday 14th December 16:52

bks. Total bks.

[DSM2]

Muzzer said:

My theory?

Mercedes want Vettel - everyone knows that - and they want it to happen for the start of 2011.

Jenson knows aswell and knows that if he stays with Mercedes, it'll be either him or Rosberg getting the elbow at the end of next year.

Rosberg is German, Button isn't, plus I'll bet my bottom dollar that Rosberg's contract is longer than 1 year.

So, Jenson probably had a 1 year contract on offer at Mercedes or a 3 year deal at McLaren. I know what I'd do.

Worst case scenario, he gets beaten by Lewis, picks up a cheque for the next 3 years and maybe even picks up the odd win when Lewis falters.

Best case scenario at Mercedes is, barring a meteoric year where he completely wipes the floor with Rosberg (unlikely to that extent) he does well for a year and is then looking for another drive.

All this talk of money and German super teams is smoke IMO. It's all about length of contracts.

Spot on.

[vojx]

i thought i'd read that Jenson visited the McLaren factory against the terms of his contract, Ross was not happy and effectively showed him the door

[Muzzer]

vojx said:

i thought i'd read that Jenson visited the McLaren factory against the terms of his contract, Ross was not happy and effectively showed him the door

I don't think they were happy that he and McLaren were so brazen about the meeting at Woking.

But I don't think it contributed that much to his departure. If they wanted to keep him that much, they would have.