Hill vs Schumacher Adelaide 1994
Discussion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr00HlaK-L0
In view of all the talk surrounding MS and a possible return, I just decided to look at this again, having not viewed it for some years.
Looking at this dispassionately, DID Schuey take him out - or was this just a racing incident?
ISTR feeling pretty aggrieved on Damon's behalf at the time, but I am sure that if someone attempted that overtake with the same consequence these days, then they wouldn't really get any sympathy!
Am I imagining things or not?
In view of all the talk surrounding MS and a possible return, I just decided to look at this again, having not viewed it for some years.
Looking at this dispassionately, DID Schuey take him out - or was this just a racing incident?
ISTR feeling pretty aggrieved on Damon's behalf at the time, but I am sure that if someone attempted that overtake with the same consequence these days, then they wouldn't really get any sympathy!
Am I imagining things or not?
Schumacher had just crashed into a concrete wall at speed. The likelihood that his suspension had suffered no damage and that he would be able to continued unhindered, at race pace, for another 46 laps was negligible.
At a bare minimum - had his intentions been legitimate - he would have stayed out there, off-line, for long enough to establish what state his car was in. The idea that he could just insert himself back into the racing line, without even bothering to check his mirrors after having lost many seconds' time, is laughable.
Mosley was apoplectic because Piquet had put other drivers unjustifiably at risk in Singapore. What Schumacher did in Adelaide was at least that, even if we accept his excuse that he hadn't seen Hill.
Rouleur said:
Of course Schumacher caused the collision, but I've always felt that Hill should have hung back and waited until he could pass safely. It's easy for me to say that sat here, but I can't help thinking that he panicked when he saw his chance.
He didn't see the Benetton hit the wall, he merely saw Schumacher recover from going wide and I suspect felt he had to take his chance there and then, after all at the time he was often criticised for not being ruthless enough...With the Hill smash i still don't think it was deliberate BUT after Villenuve in 97 and the Poor attempt at valet parking in Monaco you can see why people would doubt it!
Micheal had every right to put his car into the Apex of the corner as he was the lead car and Damon should have known that Schumacher would do so since he had been battling hard and not giving him any space all year.
Damon (in hindsight and i'm sure he'd agree) should have waited until after the corner to try and overtake the Schumachers car and he would have been World Champ x 2. But Damon did make a habit of making silly moves with his move to Arrows being a prime example......
Micheal had every right to put his car into the Apex of the corner as he was the lead car and Damon should have known that Schumacher would do so since he had been battling hard and not giving him any space all year.
Damon (in hindsight and i'm sure he'd agree) should have waited until after the corner to try and overtake the Schumachers car and he would have been World Champ x 2. But Damon did make a habit of making silly moves with his move to Arrows being a prime example......
Taking someone out is a bad thing but on the flip side it puts trepidation into other drivers you come up against and will make them think twice when trying to pass you.
Its all about having the edge after all,cant be a push over can you.
Monaco was a joke though-got a bit too desperate there!
Its all about having the edge after all,cant be a push over can you.
Monaco was a joke though-got a bit too desperate there!
I remember watching this race live, and when MS blatantly drove into Damon I could of ordered a squadron of Lancasters to bomb his house!
For all MS’s great driving qualities, this incident tarnishes his reputation for me.
If he races again in F1 next year, maybe Jenson or Lewis can give him some payback
For all MS’s great driving qualities, this incident tarnishes his reputation for me.
If he races again in F1 next year, maybe Jenson or Lewis can give him some payback
I have always blamed MS for this, now I'm not too sure.
You need to disregard the fact that he went off the track. That happened, he recovered, he was back on the track and heading into the next corner. It's pretty apparent that he has the line into the corner and then Hill pushes up the inside. To think that MS is just going to concede and let Hill have the corner is a bit naive.
Hill went for it but it probably wasn't the right place to try. Had his car been alright history would probably show Schumacher as being robbed after Hill punted him off
You need to disregard the fact that he went off the track. That happened, he recovered, he was back on the track and heading into the next corner. It's pretty apparent that he has the line into the corner and then Hill pushes up the inside. To think that MS is just going to concede and let Hill have the corner is a bit naive.
Hill went for it but it probably wasn't the right place to try. Had his car been alright history would probably show Schumacher as being robbed after Hill punted him off
Interesting discussion on it HERE
The web format is a bit antiquated, but some reasoned arguments on both sides in there.
To me, it just looks as if he took the racing line. Take the emotion away from it and if we saw that incident today no one would bat an eyelid IMO - the view would be MS should have possibly been more aware of DH's position, and DH had a bit of a lunge that didnt work.
The web format is a bit antiquated, but some reasoned arguments on both sides in there.
To me, it just looks as if he took the racing line. Take the emotion away from it and if we saw that incident today no one would bat an eyelid IMO - the view would be MS should have possibly been more aware of DH's position, and DH had a bit of a lunge that didnt work.
CampDavid said:
I have always blamed MS for this, now I'm not too sure.
You need to disregard the fact that he went off the track. That happened, he recovered, he was back on the track and heading into the next corner. It's pretty apparent that he has the line into the corner and then Hill pushes up the inside. To think that MS is just going to concede and let Hill have the corner is a bit naive.
Hill went for it but it probably wasn't the right place to try. Had his car been alright history would probably show Schumacher as being robbed after Hill punted him off
Yes, we can disregard that his car had left the circuit, What we cannot disregard, however, was that his car had crashed into the wall at a substantial speed and was in all probability in no fit state to be raced. Therefore Schumacher was, in effect, pretending to race when he drove into Hill.You need to disregard the fact that he went off the track. That happened, he recovered, he was back on the track and heading into the next corner. It's pretty apparent that he has the line into the corner and then Hill pushes up the inside. To think that MS is just going to concede and let Hill have the corner is a bit naive.
Hill went for it but it probably wasn't the right place to try. Had his car been alright history would probably show Schumacher as being robbed after Hill punted him off
flemke said:
CampDavid said:
I have always blamed MS for this, now I'm not too sure.
You need to disregard the fact that he went off the track. That happened, he recovered, he was back on the track and heading into the next corner. It's pretty apparent that he has the line into the corner and then Hill pushes up the inside. To think that MS is just going to concede and let Hill have the corner is a bit naive.
Hill went for it but it probably wasn't the right place to try. Had his car been alright history would probably show Schumacher as being robbed after Hill punted him off
Yes, we can disregard that his car had left the circuit, What we cannot disregard, however, was that his car had crashed into the wall at a substantial speed and was in all probability in no fit state to be raced. Therefore Schumacher was, in effect, pretending to race when he drove into Hill.You need to disregard the fact that he went off the track. That happened, he recovered, he was back on the track and heading into the next corner. It's pretty apparent that he has the line into the corner and then Hill pushes up the inside. To think that MS is just going to concede and let Hill have the corner is a bit naive.
Hill went for it but it probably wasn't the right place to try. Had his car been alright history would probably show Schumacher as being robbed after Hill punted him off
flemke said:
CampDavid said:
I have always blamed MS for this, now I'm not too sure.
You need to disregard the fact that he went off the track. That happened, he recovered, he was back on the track and heading into the next corner. It's pretty apparent that he has the line into the corner and then Hill pushes up the inside. To think that MS is just going to concede and let Hill have the corner is a bit naive.
Hill went for it but it probably wasn't the right place to try. Had his car been alright history would probably show Schumacher as being robbed after Hill punted him off
Yes, we can disregard that his car had left the circuit, What we cannot disregard, however, was that his car had crashed into the wall at a substantial speed and was in all probability in no fit state to be raced. Therefore Schumacher was, in effect, pretending to race when he drove into Hill.You need to disregard the fact that he went off the track. That happened, he recovered, he was back on the track and heading into the next corner. It's pretty apparent that he has the line into the corner and then Hill pushes up the inside. To think that MS is just going to concede and let Hill have the corner is a bit naive.
Hill went for it but it probably wasn't the right place to try. Had his car been alright history would probably show Schumacher as being robbed after Hill punted him off
As for damage - we simply dont know. MS certainly didnt know, and seemed to be doing his best to find out. As a racing driver, should he have pulled over and slowed until he had ascertained IF the car was damaged, or should he have continued until deciding the car was unable to continue racing? Add into this the fact that the championship was at stake - if he had bumbled around for half a lap and realised his car was in fact able to continue, but meanwhile had let DH pass him and then be unable to make up the resulting defecit - as a team manager, what would you expect?
I think anyone would expect their racing driver to continue racing until he was unable to do so.
The only person who knows if that car was up to racing is MS, and even then, the 7 seconds from impact with the wall until the collision with DH may not have been long enough to reach a definitive conclusion due to the low speeds invlolved.
stin said:
With the Hill smash i still don't think it was deliberate BUT after Villenuve in 97 and the Poor attempt at valet parking in Monaco you can see why people would doubt it!
Micheal had every right to put his car into the Apex of the corner as he was the lead car and Damon should have known that Schumacher would do so since he had been battling hard and not giving him any space all year.
Damon (in hindsight and i'm sure he'd agree) should have waited until after the corner to try and overtake the Schumachers car and he would have been World Champ x 2. But Damon did make a habit of making silly moves with his move to Arrows being a prime example......
+1Micheal had every right to put his car into the Apex of the corner as he was the lead car and Damon should have known that Schumacher would do so since he had been battling hard and not giving him any space all year.
Damon (in hindsight and i'm sure he'd agree) should have waited until after the corner to try and overtake the Schumachers car and he would have been World Champ x 2. But Damon did make a habit of making silly moves with his move to Arrows being a prime example......
Schumacher was under no obligation to give away his position, it is the responsibility of the driver behind to overtake safely, Hill went for a tiny gap that was getting smaller and smaller, it was a desperate lunge and he came off worse. To me, I can't see anything wrong with what Schumacher did here, he was on the line, where he should've been.
The Villeneuve incident was quite a lot less than a racing incident though.
I would have to agree that Schui was always going to take that line, Damon would have been experienced enough to see it coming...
Interesting sidenote... Mansell won that GP at the age of 41. All the talk about how good Schui will be when/if he comes back... at the age of 41... I think it would make for a very interesting season!
Interesting sidenote... Mansell won that GP at the age of 41. All the talk about how good Schui will be when/if he comes back... at the age of 41... I think it would make for a very interesting season!
Schumacher cracked under pressure from Senna's number 2 only moments before and they were both outclassed by Mansell in qualifying, Greatest ever? what a load of tosh.
Lets also study the the numerous other times he cracked under pressure and blatantly performed petulant moves.
Lets also study the the numerous other times he cracked under pressure and blatantly performed petulant moves.
Edited by oilspill on Wednesday 16th December 19:44
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