Hillclimbing, the difference

[anonymous-user]

Between uk hillclimbing and european events. I'm curious as to how come we do things our way, and yet abroad(as seen on youtube) they use group b cars and the like, see bruno ianello or felix pailier. Also their events seem to be over longer distances and include higher speeds(again see youtube), so does anyone know why the two distinct styles?

[smifffymoto]

I think the difference is that the European stuff you have been watching is the FIA European championship and the UK is just club level stuff

[heightswitch]

smifffymoto said:

I think the difference is that the European stuff you have been watching is the FIA European championship and the UK is just club level stuff

I think it is more to do with a "stiff" over regulated health and safety freakshow of a country we live in where a 16month window is required and 27 different permissions before a road can be closed to hold a speed event!!

N

[CNHSS1]

would agree that 'closed road' venues are easier to come by on the continent whereas its an act of parliament on mainland UK to close a road and the likelihood of a motorsport getting a road closed is slim imho, so our hillclimbs have evolved around the permanant or semi-permanant venues that we have.
Ireland can close roads much easier (local council level iirc) as can the Isle of Man and Channel Islands, hence all 3 have closed road events and not permanent hill venues.
seems that the availability of the venue sets the style rather than a specific desire to have short or long courses

[anonymous-user]

Ah i see, thanks all. Tell you what, if you want to see some loons in action, then look up felix piler or bruno ianello on youtube, maybe not the most batst of people, but flat out virtually everywhere they go, pailer in a 800bhp ish intergrale and ianello ina 650ish bhp delta s4, good fun.

Edited by snowy slopes on Friday 1st January 19:12

[hornet]

snowy slopes said:

Ah i see, thanks all. Tell you what, if you want to see some loons in action, then look up felix piler or bruno ianello on youtube, maybe not the most batst of people, but flat out virtually everywhere they go, pailer in a 800bhp ish intergrale and ianello ina 650ish bhp delta s4, good fun.

Edited by snowy slopes on Friday 1st January 19:12

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AGsP3NlLcM

[Eric Mc]

Some of the British Hill Climb venues are the oldest motorsport venues in the world. Didn't Shelsley Walsh celebrate 100 years of use not so long ago?

[Jez64]

Keep meaning to go over and see some of this

Berg-Cup

They have some cracking motors.

Edited by Jez64 on Saturday 2nd January 07:53

[SamHH]

heightswitch said:

I think it is more to do with a "stiff" over regulated health and safety freakshow of a country we live in where a 16month window is required and 27 different permissions before a road can be closed to hold a speed event!!

N

Hasn't that always been the case though, even in 'the good old days'?

[Conian]

Eric Mc said:

Some of the British Hill Climb venues are the oldest motorsport venues in the world. Didn't Shelsley Walsh celebrate 100 years of use not so long ago?

I had an ace time there last year, and it opened my eyes to what a 'fast car' truly is.

I was in my 944, not a fast car by any standards.
I was following a 430 spider (a fast road car surely?), i saw that get blitzed by an older ferrari, am i thinking it was a 350 cup car? does that sound right? anyhow, a fast track car.
During the event I see the same car go up the hill in 33 secondsish.
Impressive.

Soon after I see an old F3 car break the course record, just under 22 seconds.
The ferraris looked slow.
My pals 430 looked slow.
My 944 looked stationary.

[Ravell]

Aren't those longer hilclimbs on the continent held on closed off public roads?

Wouldn't be possible as the UK has had a law for since before WW2 that prohibits racing on public roads so hilclimbs are limited to events on private estates or dedicted circuits. At least that is my understanding.

[Eric Mc]

Ravell said:

Aren't those longer hilclimbs on the continent held on closed off public roads?

Wouldn't be possible as the UK has had a law for since before WW2 that prohibits racing on public roads so hilclimbs are limited to events on private estates or dedicted circuits. At least that is my understanding.

The ban on holding competrive events on public roads dates back to the 19th century. Up until the Edwardian period, ALL competitive motoring events were held on public roads - which meant that they were all held in Continental Europe and some parts of North America. The only parts of the British Isles where public roads could b3e closed for sprints, hill climbs and races were Ireland, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.

It was precisely because of these rules that Brooklands was built and it is also because of these rules that the shortish British hill climb venues began to open up.
It's also the main reason why rallies on the British mainland tend to be on private lands as well.

[rsole]

I pretty sure that Shelsley Walsh is the oldest racing venue in the World, still held over its original course.

[Eric Mc]

rsole said:

I pretty sure that Shelsley Walsh is the oldest racing venue in the World, still held over its original course.

After posting about Shelsley Walsh last night I had a quick look at their website and they do claim this honour.

Don't forget that, at the time Shelsley Walsh was opened (1905), the notion of racing cars around a circuit (whether artificial or on public roads) had only just come into being. The first "circuit" race was the 1903 Gordon Bennett Trophy which was held on closed down army roads at the Curragh in County Kildare, Ireland and the first purpose built circuit (Brooklands) opened in 1907.
Prior to the Gordon Bennett race in Ireland, road racing was a point to point affair - Paris-Bordeaux, Paris - Barcelona etc

[covboy]

Eric Mc said:

Ravell said:

Aren't those longer hilclimbs on the continent held on closed off public roads?

Wouldn't be possible as the UK has had a law for since before WW2 that prohibits racing on public roads so hilclimbs are limited to events on private estates or dedicted circuits. At least that is my understanding.

The ban on holding competrive events on public roads dates back to the 19th century. Up until the Edwardian period, ALL competitive motoring events were held on public roads - which meant that they were all held in Continental Europe and some parts of North America. The only parts of the British Isles where public roads could b3e closed for sprints, hill climbs and races were Ireland, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.

It was precisely because of these rules that Brooklands was built and it is also because of these rules that the shortish British hill climb venues began to open up.
It's also the main reason why rallies on the British mainland tend to be on private lands as well.

Birmingham managed it (through Act of Pariament)

[bosscerbera]

Eric Mc said:

rsole said:

I pretty sure that Shelsley Walsh is the oldest racing venue in the World, still held over its original course.

After posting about Shelsley Walsh last night I had a quick look at their website and they do claim this honour.

Don't forget that, at the time Shelsley Walsh was opened (1905), the notion of racing cars around a circuit (whether artificial or on public roads) had only just come into being. The first "circuit" race was the 1903 Gordon Bennett Trophy which was held on closed down army roads at the Curragh in County Kildare, Ireland and the first purpose built circuit (Brooklands) opened in 1907.
Prior to the Gordon Bennett race in Ireland, road racing was a point to point affair - Paris-Bordeaux, Paris - Barcelona etc

Hill climbing is the oldest form of motorsport. The challenge to begin with was reaching the summit at all. When [more] cars could reach the summit, the challenge was set against the clock.

[Eric Mc]

covboy said:

Eric Mc said:

Ravell said:

Aren't those longer hilclimbs on the continent held on closed off public roads?

Wouldn't be possible as the UK has had a law for since before WW2 that prohibits racing on public roads so hilclimbs are limited to events on private estates or dedicted circuits. At least that is my understanding.

The ban on holding competrive events on public roads dates back to the 19th century. Up until the Edwardian period, ALL competitive motoring events were held on public roads - which meant that they were all held in Continental Europe and some parts of North America. The only parts of the British Isles where public roads could b3e closed for sprints, hill climbs and races were Ireland, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.

It was precisely because of these rules that Brooklands was built and it is also because of these rules that the shortish British hill climb venues began to open up.
It's also the main reason why rallies on the British mainland tend to be on private lands as well.

Birmingham managed it (through Act of Pariament)

Yes - that was always an option but it was rarely pursued because of the effort required. The Birmingham GP of the mid 1980s was a rarity and there have been precious few other examples.

[Eric Mc]

bosscerbera said:

Eric Mc said:

rsole said:

I pretty sure that Shelsley Walsh is the oldest racing venue in the World, still held over its original course.

After posting about Shelsley Walsh last night I had a quick look at their website and they do claim this honour.

Don't forget that, at the time Shelsley Walsh was opened (1905), the notion of racing cars around a circuit (whether artificial or on public roads) had only just come into being. The first "circuit" race was the 1903 Gordon Bennett Trophy which was held on closed down army roads at the Curragh in County Kildare, Ireland and the first purpose built circuit (Brooklands) opened in 1907.
Prior to the Gordon Bennett race in Ireland, road racing was a point to point affair - Paris-Bordeaux, Paris - Barcelona etc

Hill climbing is the oldest form of motorsport. The challenge to begin with was reaching the summit at all. When [more] cars could reach the summit, the challenge was set against the clock.

The honour of the first "motor sport" event is usually allocated to the 1894 Paris to Rouen "race" - which was won at an average speed of 4 mph by a De Dion Bouton

Here's Wiki's take on the first motorsport events -

The beginning of racing

"Racing began soon after the construction of the first successful petrol-fueled automobiles. The first race ever organized was on April 28, 1887 by the chief editor of Paris publication Le Vélocipède, Monsieur Fossier.[citation needed] It ran 2 kilometers from Neuilly Bridge to the Bois de Boulogne. It was won by Georges Bouton, in a car he had constructed with Albert, the Comte de Dion, but as he was the only competitor to show up it is rather difficult to call it a race.

On July 22, 1894 the first real contest was a reliability test from 'Paris to Rouen', (Concours des Voitures sans Chevaux (Horseless Carriage Competition)), organised by the Parisian magazine Le Petit Journal. The Comte Jules-Albert de Dion was first to arrive in Rouen on his steam car, but a Panhard et Levassor was judged to be the winner".

Although not a speed race as such, the winning car was partly judged on the speed it averaged over the length of the course and most motor-sport histories tend to list this race as the first proper competitive event.

[anonymous-user]

hornet said:

snowy slopes said:

Ah i see, thanks all. Tell you what, if you want to see some loons in action, then look up felix piler or bruno ianello on youtube, maybe not the most batst of people, but flat out virtually everywhere they go, pailer in a 800bhp ish intergrale and ianello ina 650ish bhp delta s4, good fun.

Edited by snowy slopes on Friday 1st January 19:12

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AGsP3NlLcM

Yep was definately a biggie that one. IIRC he debuted his new car not long after, thats the integrale with a claimed 800bhp, goes like a rocket. Was looking them up on youtube last night, and about the same time pailer broke his car, ianello bent his delta s4, and didnt compete for a while as spares are hard to come by. NO st sherlock, expensive too i bet.

[lord summerisle]

the record at Shelsey will be held either by martin groves or scott moran. both are multiple time hillvclimb champs.
their cars of choice are custom single seaters built by Gould powered by judd or cosworth V8 engines of around 3500cc - power output north of 650/700bhp. one chap custom built his own car - carbon tub etc. using a arrows cosworth V10 - a car he still needs to take his hand off the wheel to change gear!

these cars are VERY quick but geared for accelleration rathher than top speed - most hills i see then on, max speed is around 125/130mph - but on a track 7ft wide!

shelsey had its centenery a couple of years ago, Loton Park celebrates 75 years this year, prescott is about as old, Harewood started in the 60s.
but part of the reason we dont have events like our euro guys - we don't have alps or so for 5min long runs.