How great was the Targa Florio?
Discussion
I have a Nicholas Watts print of Merzario and Munari's charge to the 1972 race win in the Ferrari 312PB in my living room. Seeing them fending off the awesome charge of Helmut Marko and Vic Elford in the Alfa T33 must've been astounding. At that time in the 3.0L prototype era, the cars were essentially GP machines with full bodywork. The idea of those kind of racers charging through open countryside and villages packed with local spectators is just incredible. The DVD Speed Merchants has some mesmeric imagery of that famous 1972 race and well worth picking up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVmEFx9k8Ws
I seem to recall some footage somewhere of people practising for the race when the roads were still open, bombing through towns with horse drawn carts etc. etc.
And all the crazy Italians are egging them on! Brilliant.
I seem to recall some footage somewhere of people practising for the race when the roads were still open, bombing through towns with horse drawn carts etc. etc.
And all the crazy Italians are egging them on! Brilliant.
I was lucky enough to be taken by my parents to the 1973 (and last championship) Targa Florio. It started with my father writing to the late Dennis Jenkinson (Jenks or DSJ) for advice, and getting a lovely 3 page letter back telling him where to stay, where to go, what to look for and who to look out for.
We went for two weeks and stayed in a hotel in Cefalu that was also used as the headquarters of the works Porsche team (that eventually won). The whole experience was something else. For instance the free practice was conducted on open roads. We had a Fiat 500 hire car and I vividly remember the poor little car (4 up) shaking like a leaf, me turing round and a full house Alfa T33/12 (Stommelen driving) sitting behind us, then blating past ! The absolute pandemonium that occurred whenever Vaccarella appeared was typically Sicilian, and the general surreal setting of sitting up in the mountains, on a boiling hot day on a very bad condition road watching the fastest cars in the world flying past eating bread and olives. There are some fantastically evocative photos in Track Pass by Geoff Goddard that really capture the spirit of the race.
All the circuit based cars retired fairly early on (looking back on it one can only be amassed that they even contemplated running such cars on such roads!), and the race was eventually won by Muller / Van Lennep in the Porsch 911 2.8 (this car still exists and has been at Goodwood a few times) from Munari / Andreut in the prototype Lancia Stratos. The Stratos may well have won if reports at the time that the seat became stuck in the "back" position were true. You see Andreut was a short chap and he apparently had trouble reaching the pedals, having to leave most of the driving to Munari!!
Although not from the '73 race this one Goddard photo sums it up for me (Vaccarella going through some small village at "ridiculous mph" and the crowd going bananas).
Great memories.
This is part of a French documentry from the '73 race. Well worth watching (5 parts I think), check out the Alfa overtaking road cars!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWIBY6EDOOc&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAn5H9lG_34
We went for two weeks and stayed in a hotel in Cefalu that was also used as the headquarters of the works Porsche team (that eventually won). The whole experience was something else. For instance the free practice was conducted on open roads. We had a Fiat 500 hire car and I vividly remember the poor little car (4 up) shaking like a leaf, me turing round and a full house Alfa T33/12 (Stommelen driving) sitting behind us, then blating past ! The absolute pandemonium that occurred whenever Vaccarella appeared was typically Sicilian, and the general surreal setting of sitting up in the mountains, on a boiling hot day on a very bad condition road watching the fastest cars in the world flying past eating bread and olives. There are some fantastically evocative photos in Track Pass by Geoff Goddard that really capture the spirit of the race.
All the circuit based cars retired fairly early on (looking back on it one can only be amassed that they even contemplated running such cars on such roads!), and the race was eventually won by Muller / Van Lennep in the Porsch 911 2.8 (this car still exists and has been at Goodwood a few times) from Munari / Andreut in the prototype Lancia Stratos. The Stratos may well have won if reports at the time that the seat became stuck in the "back" position were true. You see Andreut was a short chap and he apparently had trouble reaching the pedals, having to leave most of the driving to Munari!!
Although not from the '73 race this one Goddard photo sums it up for me (Vaccarella going through some small village at "ridiculous mph" and the crowd going bananas).
Great memories.
This is part of a French documentry from the '73 race. Well worth watching (5 parts I think), check out the Alfa overtaking road cars!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWIBY6EDOOc&fea...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAn5H9lG_34
Edited by nc107 on Friday 22 January 18:21
nc107 said:
Great memories.
and we just went to Butlins! great memeories indeed.Edited by nc107 on Friday 22 January 18:21
found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKoRmPRpb6Y
Stuart Dickinson said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVmEFx9k8Ws
I seem to recall some footage somewhere of people practising for the race when the roads were still open, bombing through towns with horse drawn carts etc. etc.
And all the crazy Italians are egging them on! Brilliant.
Great find.I seem to recall some footage somewhere of people practising for the race when the roads were still open, bombing through towns with horse drawn carts etc. etc.
And all the crazy Italians are egging them on! Brilliant.
Short but sweet. And flat-12's do sound the b
ks don't they?!ETA:
There is a great pic in "Sports Car Racing In Camera 1970-1979" where a MGB-GT Sebring is piling through a left-hander, and on the opposite side of the road no more than a few feet from the car, is a bloke wearing a huge sombrero carrying two cases of beer! It's a wonderful image!
Edited by kiteless on Friday 22 January 23:39
Stuart Dickinson said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVmEFx9k8Ws
I seem to recall some footage somewhere of people practising for the race when the roads were still open, bombing through towns with horse drawn carts etc. etc.
And all the crazy Italians are egging them on! Brilliant.
I can't get the sound on that video. Is it definitely Elford? Looks like a 312PB and the only one entered in 1972 was for Merzario/Munari, with Elford in the Alfa.I seem to recall some footage somewhere of people practising for the race when the roads were still open, bombing through towns with horse drawn carts etc. etc.
And all the crazy Italians are egging them on! Brilliant.
As an aside, I met the owner of the 1973 winning 911 at Goodwood a couple of years ago. I forget the chap's name but he has an interesting collection of car including the unique Allard J2X Group C car. Fascinating to hear about racing at Le Mans, Daytona, etc.
Some years ago, Porsche launched the 968 series at the same Celafu hotel they used as their headquarters when they were racing there. World's press and dealer network turned up and drove the socks off the fleet for a whole month. I think they only 'lost' two ...
Totally brilliant piece of history. Catch Elford, Derek or Richard Attwood or Brian Redman when they have a few moments and ask them. Astounding.
One of the most unforgettable bits of driving I recall. I had some racing experience and went out on one of the sales staffs runs, about 10 cars altogether. Despite warning of pain of death if we raced or worse, things got pretty hot and we slowly passed one by one of the enthusiastic team. Having got to the front, I drove like a total fkwit, out of my skin (downhill section before the long straight to the finish) for a good long span, looked in my mirror thinking, 'that should have got rid of the barstewards' only to see ten 968 all sat bumper to bumper tight up behind me, living off my brake lights!
(Perfect car for it)
Was it not THE most romantic race for the most romantic period for sports racing cars? I think so.
Totally brilliant piece of history. Catch Elford, Derek or Richard Attwood or Brian Redman when they have a few moments and ask them. Astounding.
One of the most unforgettable bits of driving I recall. I had some racing experience and went out on one of the sales staffs runs, about 10 cars altogether. Despite warning of pain of death if we raced or worse, things got pretty hot and we slowly passed one by one of the enthusiastic team. Having got to the front, I drove like a total f
kwit, out of my skin (downhill section before the long straight to the finish) for a good long span, looked in my mirror thinking, 'that should have got rid of the barstewards' only to see ten 968 all sat bumper to bumper tight up behind me, living off my brake lights!(Perfect car for it)
Was it not THE most romantic race for the most romantic period for sports racing cars? I think so.
ph123 said:
Some years ago, Porsche launched the 968 series at the same Celafu hotel they used as their headquarters when they were racing there. World's press and dealer network turned up and drove the socks off the fleet for a whole month. I think they only 'lost' two ...
Totally brilliant piece of history. Catch Elford, Derek or Richard Attwood or Brian Redman when they have a few moments and ask them. Astounding.
One of the most unforgettable bits of driving I recall. I had some racing experience and went out on one of the sales staffs runs, about 10 cars altogether. Despite warning of pain of death if we raced or worse, things got pretty hot and we slowly passed one by one of the enthusiastic team. Having got to the front, I drove like a total fkwit, out of my skin (downhill section before the long straight to the finish) for a good long span, looked in my mirror thinking, 'that should have got rid of the barstewards' only to see ten 968 all sat bumper to bumper tight up behind me, living off my brake lights!
(Perfect car for it)
Was it not THE most romantic race for the most romantic period for sports racing cars? I think so.
Whats left there, is that start/finish pits area still there?Totally brilliant piece of history. Catch Elford, Derek or Richard Attwood or Brian Redman when they have a few moments and ask them. Astounding.
One of the most unforgettable bits of driving I recall. I had some racing experience and went out on one of the sales staffs runs, about 10 cars altogether. Despite warning of pain of death if we raced or worse, things got pretty hot and we slowly passed one by one of the enthusiastic team. Having got to the front, I drove like a total f
kwit, out of my skin (downhill section before the long straight to the finish) for a good long span, looked in my mirror thinking, 'that should have got rid of the barstewards' only to see ten 968 all sat bumper to bumper tight up behind me, living off my brake lights!(Perfect car for it)
Was it not THE most romantic race for the most romantic period for sports racing cars? I think so.
Long time ago since I was there.
At that time, the old start & finish area was intact but pretty run down. (As is the rest of the island, ask no questions ... in fact there were some imaginative stories going around as to how Porsche were able to get some pre-event 'training' past the Police at that time ...)
Rather like Rheims a few years ago until the nostalgic bug bit.
I'm told if you look very carefully, you can find traces of painting & signage etc from all those years ago. Like the old Spa.
All EXTREMELY evocative and must have been such a buzz at the time. Look at the Targa historical sites; went a long way back. My mate has an original 73 911 RS Lwt which was bought new and raced out of the box there.
At that time, the old start & finish area was intact but pretty run down. (As is the rest of the island, ask no questions ... in fact there were some imaginative stories going around as to how Porsche were able to get some pre-event 'training' past the Police at that time ...)
Rather like Rheims a few years ago until the nostalgic bug bit.
I'm told if you look very carefully, you can find traces of painting & signage etc from all those years ago. Like the old Spa.
All EXTREMELY evocative and must have been such a buzz at the time. Look at the Targa historical sites; went a long way back. My mate has an original 73 911 RS Lwt which was bought new and raced out of the box there.
I think it's been said already but someone has remastered some old Castrol videos where they employed the BBC people to go down and record the action.
From memory, it was the year Sir John Whitmore raced the open GT40/Hill in a Porsche (?)
Very 'old boy' but some fantastic footage. Like Hawthorn's D-Type round Le Mans ...
From memory, it was the year Sir John Whitmore raced the open GT40/Hill in a Porsche (?)
Very 'old boy' but some fantastic footage. Like Hawthorn's D-Type round Le Mans ...
Stuart Dickinson said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVmEFx9k8Ws
I seem to recall some footage somewhere of people practising for the race when the roads were still open, bombing through towns with horse drawn carts etc. etc.
And all the crazy Italians are egging them on! Brilliant.
Correct.I seem to recall some footage somewhere of people practising for the race when the roads were still open, bombing through towns with horse drawn carts etc. etc.
And all the crazy Italians are egging them on! Brilliant.
My father relates a story about the family holiday in, 71 I think. Dad, mum, older sis and bro out in a Fiat 500/600. Father suddenly hears a noise. A cacophony. A scream.
Shortly after they were watching Jacki Iykx disappearing into the distance having just gone past them at a very considerable rate of knots
ph123 said:
I think it's been said already but someone has remastered some old Castrol videos where they employed the BBC people to go down and record the action.
From memory, it was the year Sir John Whitmore raced the open GT40/Hill in a Porsche (?)
Very 'old boy' but some fantastic footage. Like Hawthorn's D-Type round Le Mans ...
I have a copy of the video (on VHS) -called 'Mountain Legend', it features the 1965 race and practice.From memory, it was the year Sir John Whitmore raced the open GT40/Hill in a Porsche (?)
Very 'old boy' but some fantastic footage. Like Hawthorn's D-Type round Le Mans ...
Not sure if it's available on DVD
Mountain Legend part 1 is here on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_SV9FAX0tE
I think there are 8 parts in total, all there, well worth a watch.
Incidentally, if anybody still plays Grand Prix Legends, the full length Targa Florio track was released last year - well worth a look!
I think there are 8 parts in total, all there, well worth a watch.
Incidentally, if anybody still plays Grand Prix Legends, the full length Targa Florio track was released last year - well worth a look!
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