Could you explain rallying
Discussion
AndrewW-G said:
go from point A to point B as quickly as possible, navigator tells him which way to go (a rally is spread over more than one day, with several stages each day, so learning the course would be almost impossible) 
Have a look on you tube and all will no doubt become clear
Have a look on you tube and all will no doubt become clear
I was just trying to think how to put it into a couple of sentences.
one thing I'd add about the navigator is; not just telling him which way to go, but how fast he can go... so he can commit to a corner or whatever at full tilt... The navigator is actually calling back to the driver his own notes from an earlier run through the stage
Not all rallying is about getting from A to B as quickly as possible. In road rallies you can also get regularity sections which means you have to approach time controls at a time that represents an average speed over the distance from the last time control, and its not a simple case of driving at 30mph to achieve that...
Mikey G said:
Not all rallying is about getting from A to B as quickly as possible. In road rallies you can also get regularity sections which means you have to approach time controls at a time that represents an average speed over the distance from the last time control, and its not a simple case of driving at 30mph to achieve that...
But that's the type OP is already familiar with. He asked about WRC/IRC type rallying.
zac510 said:
Mikey G said:
Not all rallying is about getting from A to B as quickly as possible. In road rallies you can also get regularity sections which means you have to approach time controls at a time that represents an average speed over the distance from the last time control, and its not a simple case of driving at 30mph to achieve that...
But that's the type OP is already familiar with. He asked about WRC/IRC type rallying.
jpf said:
Don't laugh. I'm in the USA and road rallying around here is typically a time, speed, distance affair over country roads.
What is the object of professional road rallying? What does Loeb do? Why does he need a navigator?
Did he?...What is the object of professional road rallying? What does Loeb do? Why does he need a navigator?
WRC/IRC is professional Special Stage Rallying
Having competed in both disciplins as a navigator (non professional i might add...) i do know the difference..
Stage rallying is about getting from the start of stage 1 to the end of stage ( enter however many stages there are) in the quickest overall time. The Co driver in a stage rally is reciting the notes which the driver has made about the stage back to them as they progress through the stage. There is a tactical element to stage rallying. For example if the stage is loose gravel and it's dry, it may not be the best idea to be first out on the stage, so you have to drive tacticaly to avoid being the quickest driver on the previous stage, whilst not letting any rivals get ahead by too much. Stage rallying is about being very consistant over a few days in differing conditions.
Mikey G said:
Did he?...
WRC/IRC is professional Special Stage Rallying
Having competed in both disciplins as a navigator (non professional i might add...) i do know the difference..
Fair enough, but I just interpreted what I thought he meant because he mentioned that he knew of the other type of rallying already!WRC/IRC is professional Special Stage Rallying
Having competed in both disciplins as a navigator (non professional i might add...) i do know the difference..
It is about noise, dirt, rain, snow, sleet. Car parks full at 5am, mud up the side of your boots. Pubs shut in Wales at 9pm. Trudging over a god-forsaken blowy forests with no trees for shelter. It is finding your torch batteries have expired so you can't read the sodden Autosport guide. It is rain that runs down your back and chest despite the towel draped around you shoulders and the layers of waterproof clothing. It is a force 8 coming all the way from the Urals. It is finding your cherished slot on a special stages where you can watch each car for 15 seconds and then have to trudge all the way back to the car to get to the next stage where it will be almost identical apart from the fact there will be fewer cars.
It's an acquired taste.
It's an acquired taste.
There is also Rally Raids, which are an altogether different kettle of fish!
In a WRC style event, a good navigator will basically dictate to the driver what to do and when to do it (as they have made notes on the stage already, unlike Rally Raids).
Cheers
The Moose
In a WRC style event, a good navigator will basically dictate to the driver what to do and when to do it (as they have made notes on the stage already, unlike Rally Raids).
Cheers
The Moose
Edited by The Moose on Tuesday 26th January 21:05
jpf said:
What is the object of professional road rallying? What does Loeb do? Why does he need a navigator?
The object is to get from the start of a special stage to the finish in the possible fastest time, there will be a number of these stages depending on the size and nature of the event, and the times taken to complete these stages are added up and whoever is quickest wins.These stages are not circuits, and practice on the stage itself is extremely limited, thus the driver does not know the stage like he would know a circuit.
The stages them selves can take the form of narrow, twisting tarmac roads in remote mountainous regions, or of gravel forest tracks or of snowbound forest tracks in Scandinavia.
Practice is normally limited to one pass over the stage at a top speed of 30mph, this is to allow the making of pace notes and normally happens some months before nthe event itself. If any member of any rally team, or indeed anybody connected in any way with the world of motorsport at all is ever seen on any given stage at any time before an event, be he on foot or bicycle or whatever, then that is regarded as blatant cheating and it causes an enormous fuss, so it very rarely happens. However there are some popular stages that get used each year and experienced crews will have built up an extensive knowledge of those stages.
The reason the co-driver reads pace notes to the driver is because the stage mileage is so long that there is no hope of the driver being able to remember them - and then there is the issue of stages that have not been used before, etc.
The pace notes will be very detailed. They will tell the driver of the nature of an oncoming bend, how sharp the bend is and what the nature of the road after the bend is like - for instance a bend might be able to be taken flat out in fourth gear if there is a long straight after it, but if there is a 90 degree bend immediately afterwards then the driver will need to be slowing down before the first bend.
The crew will even take the trouble to see if the car can be allowed to cut the corner and possibly place a wheel into the ditch beside the track to allow the car to 'hook' the corner and travel a bit more quickly, but if there are rocks and or other dangers noted then the instruction "don't cut" will be called.
Rally cars travel at very high speeds, and the co-driver will often be calling two or three or more bends ahead, and that explains why if you should be watching some rallying on tv or youtube etc and what the co-driver is saying does not seem to relate at all to the road you are seeing.
There are other aspects to the discipline of rallying, which the co-driver will take care of. He will navigate the driver on the public road sections of the event as they travel from one special stage to another. To prevent speeding on the public road there will be a strict timetable at which the crew must check in and out at various controls, before making their way to the stage itself.
The rally cars will recieve 'servicing' on the event, the rally equivalent of pitstops, and to ensure the event keeps to a timetable and to keep everyone where they should be, there will be times which the crew must check in to and out of these service areas. Major repairs can be undertaken at these services, but there will be rules governing engine changes etc. A service can be fun to watch though, and seeing just how damn quickly a well prepared crew can change a gear box say on a rally car can be a joy to see - the service crews often get a round of applause from watching fans.
Right, that should be enough to be going on with. I'm sure there'll be plenty more contributions, but i hope we don't tie ourself in knots.
. It can be quite a complicated sport.Top Gear explaining what rally spectating is. not too far removed from Derek's 
http://www.garagetv.be/video-galerij/flitspaal/ric...
http://www.garagetv.be/video-galerij/flitspaal/ric...
Derek Smith said:
It is about noise, dirt, rain, snow, sleet. Car parks full at 5am, mud up the side of your boots. Pubs shut in Wales at 9pm. Trudging over a god-forsaken blowy forests with no trees for shelter. It is finding your torch batteries have expired so you can't read the sodden Autosport guide. It is rain that runs down your back and chest despite the towel draped around you shoulders and the layers of waterproof clothing. It is a force 8 coming all the way from the Urals. It is finding your cherished slot on a special stages where you can watch each car for 15 seconds and then have to trudge all the way back to the car to get to the next stage where it will be almost identical apart from the fact there will be fewer cars.
It's an acquired taste.
It's about being woken up at 3am at High Horcum Service area on the North Yorks Moors by your driver knocking on the window of the service van asking ever so politely if he could have his rally car serviced.....and discovering that there's a reversed imprint of the Ford logo on your forehead where your head crashed forward onto the steering when you fell asleep It's an acquired taste.
It's about seeing the chance to 'borrow' a police blue flashing roadside light to stash in the chase car to have some fun at your 'crews' expense later on, on a dark stretch of road thinking he's being pulled over for speeding between stages
Definately an acquired taste
Happy days, just doesn't seem like a quarter of a century ago
short video here. You can get the full version at Duke .com ( this is rallying)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65iD4gkelfg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65iD4gkelfg
aeropilot said:
Derek Smith said:
It is about noise, dirt, rain, snow, sleet. Car parks full at 5am, mud up the side of your boots. Pubs shut in Wales at 9pm. Trudging over a god-forsaken blowy forests with no trees for shelter. It is finding your torch batteries have expired so you can't read the sodden Autosport guide. It is rain that runs down your back and chest despite the towel draped around you shoulders and the layers of waterproof clothing. It is a force 8 coming all the way from the Urals. It is finding your cherished slot on a special stages where you can watch each car for 15 seconds and then have to trudge all the way back to the car to get to the next stage where it will be almost identical apart from the fact there will be fewer cars.
It's an acquired taste.
It's about being woken up at 3am at High Horcum Service area on the North Yorks Moors by your driver knocking on the window of the service van asking ever so politely if he could have his rally car serviced.....and discovering that there's a reversed imprint of the Ford logo on your forehead where your head crashed forward onto the steering when you fell asleep It's an acquired taste.
It's about seeing the chance to 'borrow' a police blue flashing roadside light to stash in the chase car to have some fun at your 'crews' expense later on, on a dark stretch of road thinking he's being pulled over for speeding between stages
Definately an acquired taste
Happy days, just doesn't seem like a quarter of a century ago
I've been lucky enough to experience rallying from both seats in the car, the sodden muddy service parks (never pitch up at the bottom of the slope if they use a cattle market as a service venue ..... it'll look completely different to how you remember it when it hammers with rain all night, and gravity pulls its festering solution across the concrete.), from under a bobble hat in the forest, and as part on remote service having our own little adventure in the wilderness.
I love all forms of motorsport, and have tried a fair few. Nothing, repeat NOTHING, compares with being sat with your mate beside you whilst travelling at 100mph threading between angry looking trees and ditches, with gravel bouncing off of the bottom of the car.
jpf said:
Why does he need a navigator?
Consider what DSJ (Jenks) did for Stirling Moss in the 1955 Mille Mille.He made pacenotes which enabled Moss to drive flat out, DSJ telling him if it was flat, or left or right over the next brow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Jenkinson
As far as i see it, in the wrc/irc etc, the job of the navigator is to allow the driver to attack the roads with full concentration, whilst directing him accurately. For the OP, as i believe he is an american, then see what travis pastrana does for subaru, its like that but with better paid, and in certain cases just plain better, drivers
Forums | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff