Team Livery - Steath or Striking?
Discussion
A slightly different reason for asking about the various colours and designs, sponsors and logos that the teams have adopted this year.
In your opinions, is there anything to be gained or lost from having a certain livery?
What provoked me to ask the question was, whilst looking at the Autosport Live test timing link, they occasionally throw in a picture to keep things exciting. In particular the 'Grey Arrow' of Schumi made me think - 'I wonder if thats going to blend into the background of someone watching their mirrors'.
Commentators in the past have alluded to the fact that the Ferrari almost had this 'psychological advantage' when arriving in someones mirrors as the bright red livery was unmistakeable and may have helped them to pass backmarkers, or distract the driver they were chasing.
Schumi's new car is going to just appear like the clouds on the horizon behind him isnt he, with all that misty swirly grey thing going on?
If I were running a team I think I would deliberately have a very striking colour that would make the car instantly visible even in the tiny mirrors of todays cars - Just on the off chance it was enough to pre-warn a back marker that he was there, or enough to distract the defending driver from his own lines and braking points etc.
Over to you chaps.
(Oops - Sorry about the spelling of STEALTH in the title - idiot!)
In your opinions, is there anything to be gained or lost from having a certain livery?
What provoked me to ask the question was, whilst looking at the Autosport Live test timing link, they occasionally throw in a picture to keep things exciting. In particular the 'Grey Arrow' of Schumi made me think - 'I wonder if thats going to blend into the background of someone watching their mirrors'.
Commentators in the past have alluded to the fact that the Ferrari almost had this 'psychological advantage' when arriving in someones mirrors as the bright red livery was unmistakeable and may have helped them to pass backmarkers, or distract the driver they were chasing.
Schumi's new car is going to just appear like the clouds on the horizon behind him isnt he, with all that misty swirly grey thing going on?
If I were running a team I think I would deliberately have a very striking colour that would make the car instantly visible even in the tiny mirrors of todays cars - Just on the off chance it was enough to pre-warn a back marker that he was there, or enough to distract the defending driver from his own lines and braking points etc.
Over to you chaps.
(Oops - Sorry about the spelling of STEALTH in the title - idiot!)
Edited by A911DOM on Thursday 11th February 15:02
Two angles to it:
- Viewer/sponsorship - the brightest colours are best. (For example, in BTCC you always know which car Dave Pinkney is in!)
- Driving in a race - well two schools of thought, either 'distraction/warning' for foes/backmarkers, or do you want stealth so you can make a move unseen until the last moment? The foe may not see which side you've gone, making it harder to defend... however they are more likely to hit you.
On balance, for me, I reckon that the bright cars have an advantage, mainly as you're less likely to be taken out.
- Viewer/sponsorship - the brightest colours are best. (For example, in BTCC you always know which car Dave Pinkney is in!)
- Driving in a race - well two schools of thought, either 'distraction/warning' for foes/backmarkers, or do you want stealth so you can make a move unseen until the last moment? The foe may not see which side you've gone, making it harder to defend... however they are more likely to hit you.
On balance, for me, I reckon that the bright cars have an advantage, mainly as you're less likely to be taken out.
All of the teams will look closely at how colours appear on TV / HD before giving the go ahead, look at the problems Jordan had all of those years ago with gold, and also how Philip Morris (Ferrari) have changed the colors. Also watch out for clever designs to cover up a lack of 'partners / investors' currently NOT in F1. Lots of team owners are sweating at how little success they are currently having finding money.
Finally watch out for the daft idea of teams having brands.....teams are teams, and they should not become a brand...they have nothing to sell to the public beyond poorly made or over priced merchandise, usually covered in logo's.
Strong colours work, but can drown out the partners logos' white is a poor colour, black is not so good these days, neither is green.
Finally watch out for the daft idea of teams having brands.....teams are teams, and they should not become a brand...they have nothing to sell to the public beyond poorly made or over priced merchandise, usually covered in logo's.
Strong colours work, but can drown out the partners logos' white is a poor colour, black is not so good these days, neither is green.
belleair302 said:
Strong colours work, but can drown out the partners logos' white is a poor colour, black is not so good these days, neither is green.
I hadnt even really considered the merchandise side - but yes this could have an effect as they must generate 'some' revenue from t-shirts and caps etc. However - Green not being a good colour?
I can see Lotus making a mint on some cleverly retro merchandise this year!
dpbird90 said:
flemke said:
Teddy Mayer said that the reason he chose "Papaya" or McLaren Orange for the Can-Am cars was so backmarkers would notice them in their mirrors.
I thought it was because it showed up best on black and white tv's as well?
flemke said:
paulrockliffe said:
Why does just one chap have a park bench on top of his car in that pic?
Probably because his car owner was cleverer than the rest, although it appears that the car at the very back (T70?) has something similar.
on the same colour Scheme
Team Gunston had two famous cars used in South Africa
The Porsche 917
and the more famous Gunston Capri built by Basil Greene
The first Team Gunston sponsored Capri Perana V8 was built to Group 5 regulations.
The car's race number was Z181. It was first raced, driven by Bob Olthoff, at the South African Grand Prix meeting on 31 January 1970.
Bob Olthoff lapped the old Kyalami circuit at 1 minute 36 seconds, only about 15 seconds slower than Formula 1 cars of the era. It was timed at over 270 km/h (170 MPH) at the end of the straight. By comparison Basil Green driving a somewhat modified Perana Capri V8 road car did 223 km/h (139 MPH) on the same straight.
Bob Olthoff went on to championship victory by winning 12 out of 13 races with one DNF.
This car's performance was overwhelming, and it finished some races 30 seconds ahead of the next car. This sheer dominance was probably very instrumental in a change in regulations that saw the main 1971 saloon series run cars in much more standard form. But of course Bob Olthoff in another Team Gunston Capri Perana V8 won the 1971 championship too.
Z181 was powered by a Gurney Weslake 5 litre (302 cubic inch) V8 engine of a similar specification to those used in the Ford GT40. It used the same 4 speed 'top loader' Mustang gearbox as the road cars. The suspension was radically modified. At the front the Macpherson struts were replaced by a fully adjustable double wishbone suspension. The rear axle was up-rated to a Ford 9 inch item that contained a Detroit Locker differential. The back axle was located by 4 link bars and an unusual central lateral locator. The wheel diameter was increased to 15 inches. Stopping was provided by Ford GT40 discs.
Unlike modern saloon race cars, Z181 retained full interior trim.
DBSV8 said:
flemke said:
paulrockliffe said:
Why does just one chap have a park bench on top of his car in that pic?
Probably because his car owner was cleverer than the rest, although it appears that the car at the very back (T70?) has something similar.What I was wondering about was the driver/car with big wing at the very back of the image, in what would have been start position #22.
These nice clips are from that race:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRlcOnccfgg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nOcXNZ9GDE&fea...
It appears that it was Ludwig Heimrath in a McLaren Elva.
This is a very helpful guide to the cars and liveries in that event:
http://www.imca-slotracing.com/CANAM-1967.htm
You may notice in the first video that Sam Posey's Caldwell also has a huge rear wing, although the still photo in the link shows the car without it.
patmahe said:
Isn't that Chapparel the one where the driver adjusted the rear 'airbrake' using a footpedal? Must have been an interesting driving experience.
Yes, but I believe it was done on the previous car as well:
Recall that these cars had auto 'boxes, which was the most frequent reason that their finishing rate was poor.
I think the way it worked was that the wing angle was actuated by the throttle pedal. With the throttle off, the wing was at maximum drag. As the throttle was depressed, it flattened out.
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