Unchristian comments from Horner

[Derek Smith]

The Times runs an article on the hazards of the new teams:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/a...

I accept there is probably a certain political motive in this: pressure on Todt, a passing shot at Mosley, trying to establish RB as a leader, that sort of thing. It is something Todt must address though.

Any overt rejection of the new teams will be a slap in the face of Mosley and that is the wrong end for him. He might well fight back. Some of his supporters have already been removed from the upper levels of the sport but he still has a majority in the FIA that he can call into action.

I remember sitting at paddock one year watching the Mercs (before they collided) and Jags diving to the inside of 911s and such with a difference in speed and braking distance that was awesome. It really was a tremendous spectacle. However, I'm not sure that's what we want to see in GP racing.

Some of these new drivers have little provenance and their lack of racecraft might well cause accidents. I can see a few problems during qually as well.

Not long to go now.

[thegreenhell]

But this is nothing new. The whole history of F1 is full of new teams, slow teams and off-the-pace new drivers coming into the sport, and then disappearing again if they didn't make the cut. It is only in very recent years that the grid has closed right up.

The real issue is that something had to be done to refill the grids after several high profile team drop-outs. How else can this be achieved without letting in new blood? IMO, it's more a case of the existing teams being peeved that there's some new kids been let into their party and they're going to steal some of their cake after having it all to themselves for several years.

[_dobbo_]

Christian Horner said:

We will just try to stay out of their way. The danger is the time difference is going to be so big — up to five seconds a lap — and the difference in the closing speeds is massive.

You might start a lap eight seconds behind somebody and think you are OK. But you will catch these guys before the end of the lap — and then, will they be looking in their mirrors?

5 seconds 8 seconds, which one is it?

[ADEuk]

Umm, unless they make that 5 secs gap up on a straight the closing speeds are going to be a couple of mph. Hardly dangerous. Fisi and Badouer where slower in the Ferrari at times last year, and I don't remember any horrendous consequences (apart from LB's career).

[spend]

If they are going to open up entries, maybe they should consider the old pre-qualifying schema as well? It could act as a self regulating safety valve if they just tuned the relative performance percentile targets sensibly.

[Alfie Noakes]

thegreenhell said:

.......The real issue is that something had to be done to refill the grids after several high profile team drop-outs........

With respect, the new teams were in before the existing ones left. And some would argue the new teams were a factor in them going.

Edited by Alfie Noakes on Wednesday 10th March 10:49

[Richard-G]

i started to warm to Red bull last year and to Horner, however of late i think he either knows something we dont or the red bull is struggling and he is trying to get the excuses in early. It DID piss me off about how much he and webber griped about the double diffuser too, should hav just designed it and shut up

[Derek Smith]

thegreenhell said:

But this is nothing new. The whole history of F1 is full of new teams, slow teams and off-the-pace new drivers coming into the sport, and then disappearing again if they didn't make the cut. It is only in very recent years that the grid has closed right up.

The real issue is that something had to be done to refill the grids after several high profile team drop-outs. How else can this be achieved without letting in new blood? IMO, it's more a case of the existing teams being peeved that there's some new kids been let into their party and they're going to steal some of their cake after having it all to themselves for several years.

This season is different. These new teams are in the main new to motor racing and not just F1. When Jordan came onto the grid they had years of lower formulae. And this was at a time when F2 was only slightly slower than F1. But Mosley has been stopping people walking along the street asking them if they'd like to start a new F1 team and did they know Jesus loves them.

And many would feel that the successful teams were chosen for reasons other than the likelyhood of them being able to compete.

I Mosley had looked for a method to demean F1 and make it less attractive for the successful teams, those who had invested millions over the years, then he could not have come up with a system more likely to succeeed than this.

Cars messing about at the back of the grid add nothing to the spectacle of F1.

[Forbes82]

F1 is embarrassing itself, this used to be a sport of bravery, now its full of moany old women.

There are many racing series operating at speeds not far off F1 with far larger gaps that are fine, just because the grid has bunched up of late doesn't mean suddenly its dangerous to have a 5 second a lap gap.

Where is the danger anyway? Surely its safer and easier to overtake a car thats 5 seconds a lap slower than you then dicing with cars that are on equal pace?

ETA - Looking up the 2002 australian grand prix, 5 cars were over 4 seconds slower than the fastest, with the slowest 5.6 seconds slower (about where the new teams are expected to be this year), it certainly wasn't a problem then, and i'm sure it isn't one now either.

Edited by Forbes82 on Wednesday 10th March 12:24

[Forbes82]

Derek Smith said:

Cars messing about at the back of the grid add nothing to the spectacle of F1.

One of the major points of interest last year was when the force india came good after being a constant backmarker was it not? Or what about when Webber scored a 5th place in a minardi on his F1 debut? The teams at the back are very important to F1, i for one look with interest at the race results all the way down, not just at the front.

Edited by Forbes82 on Wednesday 10th March 12:19

Edited by Forbes82 on Wednesday 10th March 12:21

[stephen300o]

Forbes82 said:

Derek Smith said:

Cars messing about at the back of the grid add nothing to the spectacle of F1.

One of the major points of interest last year was when the force india came good after being a constant backmarker was it not? Or what about when Webber scored a 5th place in a minardi on his F1 debut? The teams at the back are very important to F1, i for one look with interest at the race results all the way down, not just at the front.

Edited by Forbes82 on Wednesday 10th March 12:19

Edited by Forbes82 on Wednesday 10th March 12:21

The contrast shows how good the top teams are.

[DeadMeat_UK]

I think he's absolutely spot on.

There will be cars on the circuit on Friday that have never turned a wheel or been through all the F1 on-track procedures or in-car complexity.

Allied to a car that is not yet up to speed, I think they will absolutely affect the outcome of the championship contenders races at some point, likely early in the season.

There could be a view that it spices up the show a bit and adds the randomness that F1 often needs to bring out a classic drive or two.

[Richard-G]

Derek Smith said:

thegreenhell said:

But this is nothing new. The whole history of F1 is full of new teams, slow teams and off-the-pace new drivers coming into the sport, and then disappearing again if they didn't make the cut. It is only in very recent years that the grid has closed right up.

The real issue is that something had to be done to refill the grids after several high profile team drop-outs. How else can this be achieved without letting in new blood? IMO, it's more a case of the existing teams being peeved that there's some new kids been let into their party and they're going to steal some of their cake after having it all to themselves for several years.

This season is different. These new teams are in the main new to motor racing and not just F1. When Jordan came onto the grid they had years of lower formulae. And this was at a time when F2 was only slightly slower than F1. But Mosley has been stopping people walking along the street asking them if they'd like to start a new F1 team and did they know Jesus loves them.

And many would feel that the successful teams were chosen for reasons other than the likelyhood of them being able to compete.

I Mosley had looked for a method to demean F1 and make it less attractive for the successful teams, those who had invested millions over the years, then he could not have come up with a system more likely to succeeed than this.

Cars messing about at the back of the grid add nothing to the spectacle of F1.

i agree with your last statement but in theory all teams have to start somewhere surely? toyota and bmw have an illustrious past in motor sport but they were often way off the pace. Besides Virgin f1 have a team with ALOT of experience, HRT have a fair bit of knowledge and lotus have access to a vast pool of know how. F1 is a very inbred industry and you would be shocked to see how many engineers, designers and mechanics move about per year so the talent pool is there, then it comes to budget as to if you can afford the good people, THEN it comes to management as toyota spent millions and still got nowhere.

plus, racing is racing, the interesting battles are not always between Ferrari and McLaren. i for one welcome the new teams and people like christian horner should just go and keep there mouths shut, he is doing himself and his team no favours at all so far, moaning about McLaren wing making them SOOOOO fast and now about the 'poor' pace of the new teams. From memory he didnt win anything at all last year so he should keep his worthless opinion to himself

[zac510]

I am sure that nobody would agree that F1 should be locked up for all of the good ol' boys and their investment.
Perhaps the best candidates weren't given the spots but how can you not want more teams in F1?

[mattikake]

Richard-G said:

Derek Smith said:

thegreenhell said:

But this is nothing new. The whole history of F1 is full of new teams, slow teams and off-the-pace new drivers coming into the sport, and then disappearing again if they didn't make the cut. It is only in very recent years that the grid has closed right up.

The real issue is that something had to be done to refill the grids after several high profile team drop-outs. How else can this be achieved without letting in new blood? IMO, it's more a case of the existing teams being peeved that there's some new kids been let into their party and they're going to steal some of their cake after having it all to themselves for several years.

This season is different. These new teams are in the main new to motor racing and not just F1. When Jordan came onto the grid they had years of lower formulae. And this was at a time when F2 was only slightly slower than F1. But Mosley has been stopping people walking along the street asking them if they'd like to start a new F1 team and did they know Jesus loves them.

And many would feel that the successful teams were chosen for reasons other than the likelyhood of them being able to compete.

I Mosley had looked for a method to demean F1 and make it less attractive for the successful teams, those who had invested millions over the years, then he could not have come up with a system more likely to succeeed than this.

Cars messing about at the back of the grid add nothing to the spectacle of F1.

i agree with your last statement but in theory all teams have to start somewhere surely? toyota and bmw have an illustrious past in motor sport but they were often way off the pace. Besides Virgin f1 have a team with ALOT of experience, HRT have a fair bit of knowledge and lotus have access to a vast pool of know how. F1 is a very inbred industry and you would be shocked to see how many engineers, designers and mechanics move about per year so the talent pool is there, then it comes to budget as to if you can afford the good people, THEN it comes to management as toyota spent millions and still got nowhere.

plus, racing is racing, the interesting battles are not always between Ferrari and McLaren. i for one welcome the new teams and people like christian horner should just go and keep there mouths shut, he is doing himself and his team no favours at all so far, moaning about McLaren wing making them SOOOOO fast and now about the 'poor' pace of the new teams. From memory he didnt win anything at all last year so he should keep his worthless opinion to himself

Lesser teams are essential to F1, no matter how crap they may be. Without someone unimportant coming last, a major player must come last. Do so too many times and like Toyota or BMW, you're just going to give up before it becomes embarassing, instead of an advertising venture... (Financial pressures were a secondary consideration. If they weren't doing crap, financial situations would be far less relevant)

If minnows never enter the sport evenutally you'll be left with a couple of teams populating the grid like DTM. (Though as someone who wants to see the best drivers duke it out in a sure way to prove who is the best, I have no problem with this).

Re: Horner. He wasn't always like this. Yet more proof that power corrutps!

[Mazda Baiter]

Richard-G said:

From memory he didnt win anything at all last year so he should keep his worthless opinion to himself

Only a few GPs and second in the constructors championship.

[skeggysteve]

Derek Smith said:

These new teams are in the main new to motor racing and not just F1.

Campos/HRT - Adrian Campos is an ex. driver and the team has run cars in various lower formula.
Lotus - Mike Gascoyne is not exactly new to racing
Virgin - John (butcher) Booth is also an ex. driver, Manor Motorsport has run cars in many lower formula and Nick Wirth has been about for a bit!

[DeadMeat_UK]

zac510 said:

I am sure that nobody would agree that F1 should be locked up for all of the good ol' boys and their investment.
Perhaps the best candidates weren't given the spots but how can you not want more teams in F1?

I don't think no new teams is the issue, it's the method of introduction, and the setting of a minimum performance bar.

[Richard-G]

Mazda Baiter said:

Richard-G said:

From memory he didnt win anything at all last year so he should keep his worthless opinion to himself

Only a few GPs and second in the constructors championship.

yes, I was watching the season as well. But he didn’t win any CHAMPIONSHIPS, hasn’t won any F1 championships and is not a de facto voice for the goings on in F1. All he did last year was bh about the double diffuser, now he is bhing about McLaren’s wing and the 'slower' teams. Like i said, he should shut up and wait for bahrain, because at the moment he is setting himself up for a fall

[elster]

_dobbo_ said:

Christian Horner said:

We will just try to stay out of their way. The danger is the time difference is going to be so big — up to five seconds a lap — and the difference in the closing speeds is massive.

You might start a lap eight seconds behind somebody and think you are OK. But you will catch these guys before the end of the lap — and then, will they be looking in their mirrors?

5 seconds 8 seconds, which one is it?

Read it again, both.

You lose 5 seconds a lap.

You start a lap 8 seconds in front of someone, coming to lap you.

You lose a further 5 seconds a lap.

The person behind is now 3 seconds behind you and going to be trying to overtake.