Schumacher - dumb question

[Mannginger]

I will declare my position from the outset that I have never been a fan of MS.

However I have been surprised with the way that Rosberg has really out driven him. In particular what surprised me was the race last weekend in the wet. For many years it's been known that MS was awesome in the wet but this season that's just not turned out to be the case.

Of course there have been a number of changes to the cars since MS' peak but I do wonder if the lack of traction control is the most telling?

The other drivers have had longer to drive without TC, or in fact have never driven an F1 car with TC on...could it be that MS got too used to being able to simply lean on the car and hasn't been able to adapt his style / lighten his touch on the car?

As I say it may be a touch simplistic this question and no doubt greater analysts than me have other answers, but I was genuinely surprised with the Shanghai race.

[Blue Meanie]

He's been out of the game for a while as well, remember. I think he'll get back into the swing of it midseason. That is not to say he will beat Rosberg, but he'll be making a better fist of it.

[Derek Smith]

Mannginger said:

I will declare my position from the outset that I have never been a fan of MS.

However I have been surprised with the way that Rosberg has really out driven him. In particular what surprised me was the race last weekend in the wet. For many years it's been known that MS was awesome in the wet but this season that's just not turned out to be the case.

Of course there have been a number of changes to the cars since MS' peak but I do wonder if the lack of traction control is the most telling?

The other drivers have had longer to drive without TC, or in fact have never driven an F1 car with TC on...could it be that MS got too used to being able to simply lean on the car and hasn't been able to adapt his style / lighten his touch on the car?

As I say it may be a touch simplistic this question and no doubt greater analysts than me have other answers, but I was genuinely surprised with the Shanghai race.

To be fair, most other drivers, even at the time he was racing, had longer to drive without traction control.

But I'm with you. I'm surprised at his lack of competativeness. Rosberg is good, of that there can be no doubt. He's put in some excllent drives, flattering a rather ordinary car but I thought he'd have to work harder to keep in front, let alone trounce MS.

I feel there must be a reason. There were rumours at the time he retired of difficulties with the changing regs but I've got to say I didn't believe them at the time.

One thing that might be relevant: when MS broke his legs at Silverstone trying to outbrake Eddie Irvine he was in no hurry to return. Indeed, he had to be called back into the seat. One wonders if his committment now that he has a family is as strong as it needs to be.

[StevieBee]

At Ferrari (and to a lesser extent at Benetton), Schummacher excelled only when the car and team gravitated entirely towards him. At his peak, it’s as if Ferrari sat him in a race seat in the factory, then built the car around him, then run the team for him and him alone.

In my opinion, the Ferrari / Schummacher dominance is similar to that of the Labour party of the past 13 years – wasn’t that they were particularly good but that the opposition wasn’t as good as they should have been. When occasionally they did raise their game, the fights was a lot closer than statistical history might suggest.

Had the playing field been more even then I don’t think Schummacher would have achieved the level of success he did.

Means nothing of course – winning is winning and that Ferrari consistently produced the best car for the best part of 10 years is a commendable achievement.

Over the past three years, the game has changed but Schummacher, I think, has not. He was and still is an incredibly skilled, fast driver. Thing is, so are a lot of the others and without the benefit of a “team made for him” I think he is being exposed for what he has always been – just a very, very good driver racing with other very, very good drivers only this time, they are all in very, very good cars.

If he sticks it this year and manipulates the team to his liking for 2011, then I think things will change considerably.

[Wanta996Gotta]

StevieBee said:

At Ferrari (and to a lesser extent at Benetton), Schummacher excelled only when the car and team gravitated entirely towards him. At his peak, it’s as if Ferrari sat him in a race seat in the factory, then built the car around him, then run the team for him and him alone.

In my opinion, the Ferrari / Schummacher dominance is similar to that of the Labour party of the past 13 years – wasn’t that they were particularly good but that the opposition wasn’t as good as they should have been. When occasionally they did raise their game, the fights was a lot closer than statistical history might suggest.

Had the playing field been more even then I don’t think Schummacher would have achieved the level of success he did.

Means nothing of course – winning is winning and that Ferrari consistently produced the best car for the best part of 10 years is a commendable achievement.

Over the past three years, the game has changed but Schummacher, I think, has not. He was and still is an incredibly skilled, fast driver. Thing is, so are a lot of the others and without the benefit of a “team made for him” I think he is being exposed for what he has always been – just a very, very good driver racing with other very, very good drivers only this time, they are all in very, very good cars

If he sticks it this year and manipulates the team to his liking for 2011, then I think things will change considerably.

Spot on. I know that its hard to take for some of the fans that idolised him but its looking that way.

[HiRich]

I would add:

• Some of the "Regenmeister" hype is just that - rubbish spouted by the usual uncritical commentators. It's not hard to look good when you're the only car on wet settings. When a reputation has been forged like that, people tend to forget those times when the tables are turned. He's good, but not as good as Walker, Allen and others would have you believe.
• The converse is now true. The narrative is "Schumacher in trouble". Given the time out, he generally hasn't been that far away, comparable with other team mates. There have been "issues" extending the gap (broken wing in Australia), and such is the way these things go, it's always him rather than Rosberh who gets the duff luck. But the narrative has been set, and until he dominates Rosberg completely, that will just build (and you can guess exactly how that domination will be presented by the media).
• We have seen quite recently how a reputation can be made or lost by a car that the driver does/not feel confident with. Hill never got grooved tyres, Montoya and Raikonen hated understeering McLarens, Remember Hamilton last year, and how his performances improved as the car became more planted under him. MS arrived a bit late, and now the talk is of balance and bringing the car to him. There's a lot more to getting a car to work for you than downforce and gearing.

So there are many reasons why things may not be working before we default to "he's past it". A not incosiderable part is that the media are painting a picture they know to be inaccurate.
(and I say this as someone in the don't like camp)

[heebeegeetee]

HiRich said:

• Some of the "Regenmeister" hype is just that - rubbish spouted by the usual uncritical commentators. It's not hard to look good when you're the only car on wet settings. When a reputation has been forged like that, people tend to forget those times when the tables are turned. He's good, but not as good as Walker, Allen and others would have you believe.

I wasn't a huge fan of his either, and i don't want to get into the debate over what's going on now, but i don't agree with your comment re his abilities in the wet - i feel his reputation was fully deserved and gained over a very long period.