Ferrari & Alonso...
Discussion
Who thinks the honeymoon is over and that it's now dawning on Alonso that being at Ferrari isn't the epic tale that many had hoped. Last year, Ferrari cut their losses so that they could work on this years car - while the likes of McLaren stayed fighting for points... Alonso then famously said that this years Ferrari is the best car he's ever driven. So how do they find themselves in this pickle of a situation?
Referencing this piece: http://www.planetf1.com/news/18227/6183843/Alonso-... - Legard says:
"I'm told that Fernando Alonso is very frustrated by Ferrari's rate of development. Compared to his time at McLaren in 2007, when the British team had updates for every race, Ferrari's flow of new parts this season has been very slow, with no more than little tweaks here and there so far,"
I suppose Massa will be as frustrated, of course. It seems Ferrari have been resting on their laurels - as Renault and Mercedes keep upping their game; McLaren of course. Red Bull have taken the other teams by suprise this year but why can't Ferrari match the level of development of the other teams?
Referencing this piece: http://www.planetf1.com/news/18227/6183843/Alonso-... - Legard says:
"I'm told that Fernando Alonso is very frustrated by Ferrari's rate of development. Compared to his time at McLaren in 2007, when the British team had updates for every race, Ferrari's flow of new parts this season has been very slow, with no more than little tweaks here and there so far,"
I suppose Massa will be as frustrated, of course. It seems Ferrari have been resting on their laurels - as Renault and Mercedes keep upping their game; McLaren of course. Red Bull have taken the other teams by suprise this year but why can't Ferrari match the level of development of the other teams?
Even with the car he's got he'd be better off if he didn't jump starts, spin on the first lap or trash the car in free practice 
.
The car isn't onto Red Bull's Pace though. At the start of the year, it was Red Bull then Ferrari/Mclaren, then Mercedes/Renault. McLaren have developed the car more this year and are catching RB, Ferrari are in it with Mercedes and Renault now. The commentary had a good point in Turkey at one stage, the car Alonso was chasing for position was the second driver of the team he left (ie. Petrov). That must have really brought it home.
.The car isn't onto Red Bull's Pace though. At the start of the year, it was Red Bull then Ferrari/Mclaren, then Mercedes/Renault. McLaren have developed the car more this year and are catching RB, Ferrari are in it with Mercedes and Renault now. The commentary had a good point in Turkey at one stage, the car Alonso was chasing for position was the second driver of the team he left (ie. Petrov). That must have really brought it home.
Edited by ajprice on Tuesday 1st June 22:12
Alonso is NOT an F1 driving god.
He is an overrated, duplicitous piece of work who believes his own hype.
He is, at best, prone to periods of being very quick when both his mood and his car are all good. Given such circumstances, he can deliver. Anything less, he becomes a liability, a diva and a massive PITA.
He adds nothing to a team that is not cancelled out by the downsides he brings.
He is an overrated, duplicitous piece of work who believes his own hype.
He is, at best, prone to periods of being very quick when both his mood and his car are all good. Given such circumstances, he can deliver. Anything less, he becomes a liability, a diva and a massive PITA.
He adds nothing to a team that is not cancelled out by the downsides he brings.
Some good comments below the article.
Really makes you think how much work Schumi must have put in over his Ferrari career. To turn such a shoddy team around and keep pushing and motivating them to stay at the top for the amount of time they did, incredible.
Now the toad, Brawn and Schumi have left it seems they are back to their clueless italian selves.
Really makes you think how much work Schumi must have put in over his Ferrari career. To turn such a shoddy team around and keep pushing and motivating them to stay at the top for the amount of time they did, incredible.
Now the toad, Brawn and Schumi have left it seems they are back to their clueless italian selves.
Rocky Balboa said:
Now the toad, Brawn and Schumi have left it seems they are back to their clueless italian selves.
Yup, but don't forget Rory Bryne as the 4th missing link in the equation.With those 4 key 'linked' elements gone from the Scuderia for a while now, it was only a matter of time before they would start to struggle to stay at the very front in the same way....despite the arrival of Alonso.
I think Alonso is a real talent and still believe he is one of the quickest on the track.
However, he's not really showing that form at the moment and, as already said, is suffering too many Alonso-related incidents.
I have no insider knowledge whatsoever but i'd wager that if his attitude behind closed doors is the same as what us Joe-Public see, then he's not helping the team get the best from the car either.
I have to say Hamilton and Button seem to be showing the best working attitude and that is being displayed in a noticeable improvement in the McLaren performance.
However, he's not really showing that form at the moment and, as already said, is suffering too many Alonso-related incidents.
I have no insider knowledge whatsoever but i'd wager that if his attitude behind closed doors is the same as what us Joe-Public see, then he's not helping the team get the best from the car either.
I have to say Hamilton and Button seem to be showing the best working attitude and that is being displayed in a noticeable improvement in the McLaren performance.
toppstuff said:
Alonso is NOT an F1 driving god.
He is an overrated, duplicitous piece of work who believes his own hype.
He is, at best, prone to periods of being very quick when both his mood and his car are all good. Given such circumstances, he can deliver. Anything less, he becomes a liability, a diva and a massive PITA.
He adds nothing to a team that is not cancelled out by the downsides he brings.
I looked up what Sir Stirling Moss has to say about Alonso, and found this article.He is an overrated, duplicitous piece of work who believes his own hype.
He is, at best, prone to periods of being very quick when both his mood and his car are all good. Given such circumstances, he can deliver. Anything less, he becomes a liability, a diva and a massive PITA.
He adds nothing to a team that is not cancelled out by the downsides he brings.
http://www.michaelschumacherfan.com/stirling-moss-...
He rates him, that's enough for me.
toppstuff said:
Alonso is NOT an F1 driving god.
He is an overrated, duplicitous piece of work who believes his own hype.
He is, at best, prone to periods of being very quick when both his mood and his car are all good. Given such circumstances, he can deliver. Anything less, he becomes a liability, a diva and a massive PITA.
He adds nothing to a team that is not cancelled out by the downsides he brings.
While I think he has some serious character flaws, IMO he is most complete driver on the grid.He is an overrated, duplicitous piece of work who believes his own hype.
He is, at best, prone to periods of being very quick when both his mood and his car are all good. Given such circumstances, he can deliver. Anything less, he becomes a liability, a diva and a massive PITA.
He adds nothing to a team that is not cancelled out by the downsides he brings.
There is nothing any driver could do to vastly improve Ferrari's performance at the moment, including Schuey.
1 said:
toppstuff said:
Alonso is NOT an F1 driving god.
He is an overrated, duplicitous piece of work who believes his own hype.
He is, at best, prone to periods of being very quick when both his mood and his car are all good. Given such circumstances, he can deliver. Anything less, he becomes a liability, a diva and a massive PITA.
He adds nothing to a team that is not cancelled out by the downsides he brings.
While I think he has some serious character flaws, IMO he is most complete driver on the grid.He is an overrated, duplicitous piece of work who believes his own hype.
He is, at best, prone to periods of being very quick when both his mood and his car are all good. Given such circumstances, he can deliver. Anything less, he becomes a liability, a diva and a massive PITA.
He adds nothing to a team that is not cancelled out by the downsides he brings.
There is nothing any driver could do to vastly improve Ferrari's performance at the moment, including Schuey.
No one who has two WDCs can be trashed but I do believe he is over-hyped. He reminds me most of Piquet - senior that is. Much as I dislike Alonso I wouldn't compare him to jnr.
When everything was going well Piquet was all but untouchable. But put him under a bit of pressure and he fell apart. Further NP seemed to think the sport owed him a living and also recognition. I met one of NP's mechanics from the Brabham days and he reckoned when he had the figure 1 on his car the bloke just retired. I get the same feeling about Alonso.
I don't think he will put effort into things when it's not going well.
Ferrari doesn't need a new MSchuey. It needs a new Todt/Byrne/Brawn.
I am a big McLaren fan and what he did to the team has put me against him. I accpet that this makes it difficult to come to decisions about him with any degree of objectivity. But I think I can justify the above.
The suggestion that Alonso brings half a second to a team rings rather hollow now.
Fire99 said:
I think Alonso is a real talent and still believe he is one of the quickest on the track.
However, he's not really showing that form at the moment and, as already said, is suffering too many Alonso-related incidents.
I have no insider knowledge whatsoever but i'd wager that if his attitude behind closed doors is the same as what us Joe-Public see, then he's not helping the team get the best from the car either.
I have to say Hamilton and Button seem to be showing the best working attitude and that is being displayed in a noticeable improvement in the McLaren performance.
Agree, i think else makes it work better is the rivalry Button and Hamilton have and clearly both want to be number one, so im guessing there pushing there sets of engineering to the max, which drives the whole team on.However, he's not really showing that form at the moment and, as already said, is suffering too many Alonso-related incidents.
I have no insider knowledge whatsoever but i'd wager that if his attitude behind closed doors is the same as what us Joe-Public see, then he's not helping the team get the best from the car either.
I have to say Hamilton and Button seem to be showing the best working attitude and that is being displayed in a noticeable improvement in the McLaren performance.
Alonso and Massa look like that dont give a s
tPonk said:
I find it interesting that Alonso leaves Renault and now they have found some pace with Kubica, he joins Ferarri and they seem to lose the pace they had at the start of the season?
I've never thought of Massa as a car developer, maybe Alonso isn't either?
I did mention a few races back that Ferrari seem to have stood still with the rest of the teams now including Renault moving ahead. Only Ferrari know what kind of usefull feedback if any is coming from the drivers. I've never thought of Massa as a car developer, maybe Alonso isn't either?
Big Redbull "exhaust type" update for Valencia is due for Ferrari but Mclaren it seems have already by-passed that as there race pace looked on par with Redbulls and that was with Lewis driving in there dirty air.
Also not sure if the exhaust is the answer to the Redbulls pace??? We saw Ferrari's botched-up attempt of the F-Duct with Alonso driving one-handed so i await to see what there exhaust system will look like.
I think we're seeing the team return to it's natural, pre-Schumacher position. The influence of the 'big four' in the team and the staff they brought with them has waned and the at the same time the political relationship with the FIA is not what it was '96-'04, either.
What's left is a team that must compete on a level playing field with the other guys, whilst having lost one of the best team directors, technical directors, car designers and drivers of a generation. Any team would find it hard to maintain their position.
It really did surprise me when the current principle pretty much admitted the Ferrari engine was well behind some of the others, too. Traditionally that's been a Ferrari strong point.
What's left is a team that must compete on a level playing field with the other guys, whilst having lost one of the best team directors, technical directors, car designers and drivers of a generation. Any team would find it hard to maintain their position.
It really did surprise me when the current principle pretty much admitted the Ferrari engine was well behind some of the others, too. Traditionally that's been a Ferrari strong point.
10 Pence Short said:
I think we're seeing the team return to it's natural, pre-Schumacher position. The influence of the 'big four' in the team and the staff they brought with them has waned and the at the same time the political relationship with the FIA is not what it was '96-'04, either.
What's left is a team that must compete on a level playing field with the other guys, whilst having lost one of the best team directors, technical directors, car designers and drivers of a generation. Any team would find it hard to maintain their position.
It really did surprise me when the current principle pretty much admitted the Ferrari engine was well behind some of the others, too. Traditionally that's been a Ferrari strong point.
Dont forget the blatant FIA bias that has also recently deserted them.What's left is a team that must compete on a level playing field with the other guys, whilst having lost one of the best team directors, technical directors, car designers and drivers of a generation. Any team would find it hard to maintain their position.
It really did surprise me when the current principle pretty much admitted the Ferrari engine was well behind some of the others, too. Traditionally that's been a Ferrari strong point.
Wanta996Gotta said:
10 Pence Short said:
I think we're seeing the team return to it's natural, pre-Schumacher position. The influence of the 'big four' in the team and the staff they brought with them has waned and the at the same time the political relationship with the FIA is not what it was '96-'04, either.
Dont forget the blatant FIA bias that has also recently deserted them.
Mazda Baiter said:
10 Pence Short said:
I think we're seeing the team return to it's natural, pre-Schumacher position.
I believe it is referred to as "spaghetti management". Edited by Wanta996Gotta on Wednesday 2nd June 17:23
Wanta996Gotta said:
Mazda Baiter said:
10 Pence Short said:
I think we're seeing the team return to it's natural, pre-Schumacher position.
I believe it is referred to as "spaghetti management". Mazda Baiter said:
it would seem that whatever Alonso were to do in this situation, wouldn't necessarily help him.
Not on here, it wouldn't. I guess we don't know what progress Ferrari would have made this year without Alonso's input, so it seems a bit pointless to criticise him for any perceived lack of improvement to the car.
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