I was wrong about Jenson Button
Discussion
I was worried that Jenson would struggle to fit in at McLaren, but how wrong I was.
Jenson has gone up in my estimation massively this season. Not only is he fast, but he is pleasantly free of BS - he tells the truth and does not carry too much ego.
Under Whitmarsh , McLaren has evolved a much more open and friendly culture and both Lewis and Jenson are thriving in it. It is a pleasure to watch.
In Canada, I was really impressed how Jenson was frank enough to say that Lewis did a great job in qualifying and that "he had to work on that to improve" . No excuses, not blaming the car - but making it clear that as far as he is concerned Lewis deserved the win because he put in the best qualifying performance, which means that he must do the same.
It is early in the season, but under Whitmarsh McLaren could evolve over the next few races into a formidable, even unbeatable combination. Two great drivers of different but complimentary styles, a great team ethos and a very aggressive development programme. Compare and contrast to Fred at Ferrari or the chaps at Mercedes...
Button is bringing home the points and achieving things that Kovaleinen could not do. Yet he is also a WDC contender in his own right, equally capable of beating Lewis over the course of a season even if he is a few microseconds short of Lewis's outright pace.
I wish them well. They are the class of the field. And they are Brits !
Button is very impressive. I was wrong about him. Go on lad, you luvverly Frome boy you !
Jenson has gone up in my estimation massively this season. Not only is he fast, but he is pleasantly free of BS - he tells the truth and does not carry too much ego.
Under Whitmarsh , McLaren has evolved a much more open and friendly culture and both Lewis and Jenson are thriving in it. It is a pleasure to watch.
In Canada, I was really impressed how Jenson was frank enough to say that Lewis did a great job in qualifying and that "he had to work on that to improve" . No excuses, not blaming the car - but making it clear that as far as he is concerned Lewis deserved the win because he put in the best qualifying performance, which means that he must do the same.
It is early in the season, but under Whitmarsh McLaren could evolve over the next few races into a formidable, even unbeatable combination. Two great drivers of different but complimentary styles, a great team ethos and a very aggressive development programme. Compare and contrast to Fred at Ferrari or the chaps at Mercedes...
Button is bringing home the points and achieving things that Kovaleinen could not do. Yet he is also a WDC contender in his own right, equally capable of beating Lewis over the course of a season even if he is a few microseconds short of Lewis's outright pace.
I wish them well. They are the class of the field. And they are Brits !
Button is very impressive. I was wrong about him. Go on lad, you luvverly Frome boy you !
Very big of you to own up.
Jenson was brave to take on that challenge and I was a bit worried for him, I admit. Ok, so we've all seen he's not faster than Lewis - but it's what we have all expected along anyway.
What he is good at though, is being a genuine bloke as you say. And I feel some of this has improved Lewis as an individual also...and become a much more laid back, likeable, mature chap.
All in all, a great team effort.
But as said, big of you to own up. Nice one and nice post.
Jenson was brave to take on that challenge and I was a bit worried for him, I admit. Ok, so we've all seen he's not faster than Lewis - but it's what we have all expected along anyway.
What he is good at though, is being a genuine bloke as you say. And I feel some of this has improved Lewis as an individual also...and become a much more laid back, likeable, mature chap.
All in all, a great team effort.
But as said, big of you to own up. Nice one and nice post.
I honestly thought Lewis would walk JB this season despite being a fan of him but that's not been the case. Something interesting I've seen is that each driver seems to be overlapping the other somewhat.
We saw last year Jenson would always win by the slowest way possible with as little overtaking as needed whilst Lewis drove at a million MPH overtaking man + dog stuck up at 11. Now we see Jenson becoming a little more racy and brave, using Teflonso napping at Canada as a prime example (second time this year that's happened
) and Lewis has started to moderate his pace at the front a little more, as we saw when Jenson was catching him he just turned the wick up and drove off, I'm used to seeing him drive at 100% all the time!
This'll be very interesting to watch, I'm expecting Lewis to end up being much more of a thinker and Jenson wanting to actually overtake cars!
We saw last year Jenson would always win by the slowest way possible with as little overtaking as needed whilst Lewis drove at a million MPH overtaking man + dog stuck up at 11. Now we see Jenson becoming a little more racy and brave, using Teflonso napping at Canada as a prime example (second time this year that's happened
) and Lewis has started to moderate his pace at the front a little more, as we saw when Jenson was catching him he just turned the wick up and drove off, I'm used to seeing him drive at 100% all the time!This'll be very interesting to watch, I'm expecting Lewis to end up being much more of a thinker and Jenson wanting to actually overtake cars!
Couldn't agree any more. I've always liked Jenson, never rated him above Lewis but they have two completely different driving styles. The combination is ideal for the constructors title. I think both of them can learn from each other. I think Lewis will always get those few extra tenths out of the car but Jenson will take the long game and look after his tyres and come on later in the race. It's great to see them get on together and have a laugh. And as someone said Jensons honesty with Lewis' pace in Q3 such a genuine and nice thing to say. Heres hoping for more 1-2's from them.
PabloTeK said:
I honestly thought Lewis would walk JB this season despite being a fan of him but that's not been the case. Something interesting I've seen is that each driver seems to be overlapping the other somewhat.
We saw last year Jenson would always win by the slowest way possible with as little overtaking as needed whilst Lewis drove at a million MPH overtaking man + dog stuck up at 11. Now we see Jenson becoming a little more racy and brave, using Teflonso napping at Canada as a prime example (second time this year that's happened) and Lewis has started to moderate his pace at the front a little more, as we saw when Jenson was catching him he just turned the wick up and drove off, I'm used to seeing him drive at 100% all the time!
This'll be very interesting to watch, I'm expecting Lewis to end up being much more of a thinker and Jenson wanting to actually overtake cars!
Other than the odd example, I have to say I think you've got this year's analysis the wrong way round. Prior to the last race Lewis had registered something like 32 overtaking manouvres so far this year (to Jenson's tally in single figures), and although he was more measured in Canada, he's generally very much balls out and attack minded in the majority of races as always (not that its a bad thing!). We saw last year Jenson would always win by the slowest way possible with as little overtaking as needed whilst Lewis drove at a million MPH overtaking man + dog stuck up at 11. Now we see Jenson becoming a little more racy and brave, using Teflonso napping at Canada as a prime example (second time this year that's happened
) and Lewis has started to moderate his pace at the front a little more, as we saw when Jenson was catching him he just turned the wick up and drove off, I'm used to seeing him drive at 100% all the time!This'll be very interesting to watch, I'm expecting Lewis to end up being much more of a thinker and Jenson wanting to actually overtake cars!
Im also not sure you could label JBs performances last year as "the slowest way possible with little overtaking as needed", because despite waltzing the first half of the season so having hardly anyone to overtake because he was generally in first place, he still managed more overtaking manouvres than pretty much anyone else in the top 10 of the championship, the multiple overtakes in Brazil, on Kovalienen at Monza and on Lewis in Bahrain (against KERS cars) all spring to mind and all done in the dry.
I must admit I do feel very, very proud of what Jenson and Lewis and McLaren are doing this season. Very proud indeed. Here we have a British team (admittedly founded by the late, great Bruce - but nowadays certainly British), with two British World Champions, competing and driving with such professionalism and aplomb that - for me - it is making the rest of the F1 circus look a little foolish.
Yes, the team have made some odd calls but Martin is only into his second season as team principal and he's filling Ron's boots; which are not inconsiderable. Give the guy time and there is no reason why he cannot emulate the achievements of - say - Jerry Burgess (ex-Doohan and now Rossi).
What McLaren have now is seemingly similar to the Prost / Senna years, but with one crucial difference: despite the contrasting driving styles, they are both team players and seem to "get on" with each other; appreciating each others strengths. This is a good thing. Good for F1 and good for this country.
I honestly thought I would not see in my lifetime two British F1 drivers at the pointy end of the championship, and to Jenson, Lewis, and McLaren I extend my thanks
Yes, the team have made some odd calls but Martin is only into his second season as team principal and he's filling Ron's boots; which are not inconsiderable. Give the guy time and there is no reason why he cannot emulate the achievements of - say - Jerry Burgess (ex-Doohan and now Rossi).
What McLaren have now is seemingly similar to the Prost / Senna years, but with one crucial difference: despite the contrasting driving styles, they are both team players and seem to "get on" with each other; appreciating each others strengths. This is a good thing. Good for F1 and good for this country.
I honestly thought I would not see in my lifetime two British F1 drivers at the pointy end of the championship, and to Jenson, Lewis, and McLaren I extend my thanks
Jenson has been a bit of a revelation this year. I was a fan last year but was starting to lose a bit of faith in the belief that he was a bit soft on the overtaking department.
But his pass on Alonso in Canada was impressive and he's really got stuck in at McLaren.
He and Hamilton at Mclaren is a bit like a slightly softer, happier version of Prost and Senna.
Hamilton has a real compelling edge about him which keeps you on the edge of your seat. Button just seems to get the job pretty much done without too much fuss or drama and seems to be more tactical.
I still believe, as things stand, either could take the title at the end of the year.
But his pass on Alonso in Canada was impressive and he's really got stuck in at McLaren.
He and Hamilton at Mclaren is a bit like a slightly softer, happier version of Prost and Senna.
Hamilton has a real compelling edge about him which keeps you on the edge of your seat. Button just seems to get the job pretty much done without too much fuss or drama and seems to be more tactical.
I still believe, as things stand, either could take the title at the end of the year.
I think that another advantage of the pairing is that a good proportion of the media’s attention is rightly focussed on Jensen, the current WDC.
This seems to make Lewis more comfortable like he was in 2007, rather than the more edgy person he was in 08 & 09 when he carried the load of all the media interest in McLaren.
At the moment, it certainly seems like a win-win, however the mood of Lewis at the end of the Turkey GP showed that it is a bubble that could be easily burst and so needs to be managed by MW.
This seems to make Lewis more comfortable like he was in 2007, rather than the more edgy person he was in 08 & 09 when he carried the load of all the media interest in McLaren.
At the moment, it certainly seems like a win-win, however the mood of Lewis at the end of the Turkey GP showed that it is a bubble that could be easily burst and so needs to be managed by MW.
It is hardly a unique position for me but I have to say that I underestimated Button. I also was more than a little critical of his move from Brawn/Merc to McLaren with their established world-class driver. My assumption was that he was off to enjoy his #1 status. So it's nice to know so many others were wrong about him as well.
Mind you, OT I know, but I'd like to say that I predicted Merc would struggle a bit this season against Mclaren and Ferrari. I know 'a bit' is a bit wide of the mark.
In the early '80s I was at a GP on a practice day, sitting in the stands chatting to friends. My comment was that Warwick was a better driver than Mansell because he was so much smoother.
And old boy (about my age now I suppose), who had obviously had enough of juvenile rantings, leaned forward and said: 'Warwick's lapping a second and a half slower than Mansell. He's entitled to be smoother.'
He was on his own and we invited him to sit with us. He predicted Senna's rise to dominance and said that Mansell could be one of the greats if only he could get his act together. I asked him about Warwick - I was never one to abandon a sinking ship.
He said he'd met him a number of times. 'He's talented, he's an extremely nice chap. He won't do anything special though.'
You can hate people who are right all the time.
He also said something that over the ensuing 25 or so years that has proved spot on. He reckoned that the one essential for a great driver is that they are fast from the word go. He said you could teach how to avoid crashing but not how to be faster than the rest.
He was full of praise for Hunt, saying that he saw him from his early days and guessed he would be WDC as he was so fast, albeit for the short periods of time he stayed on track. He reckoned he was an excellent driver. That was an unfashionable opinion in those days as JH was largely derided despite being WDC. It made me 'review' his career more logically and I have to say I think he was grossly underrated then. It's changed a bit since.
But I reckon being proved wrong about a team or driver is one of the great things about F1. It keeps you interested, keeps you looking, keeps you arguing. No matter how long you've been watching the sport, and I've followed it for nearly 45 years, it still remains unpredictable and surprises you.
Mind you, OT I know, but I'd like to say that I predicted Merc would struggle a bit this season against Mclaren and Ferrari. I know 'a bit' is a bit wide of the mark.
In the early '80s I was at a GP on a practice day, sitting in the stands chatting to friends. My comment was that Warwick was a better driver than Mansell because he was so much smoother.
And old boy (about my age now I suppose), who had obviously had enough of juvenile rantings, leaned forward and said: 'Warwick's lapping a second and a half slower than Mansell. He's entitled to be smoother.'
He was on his own and we invited him to sit with us. He predicted Senna's rise to dominance and said that Mansell could be one of the greats if only he could get his act together. I asked him about Warwick - I was never one to abandon a sinking ship.
He said he'd met him a number of times. 'He's talented, he's an extremely nice chap. He won't do anything special though.'
You can hate people who are right all the time.
He also said something that over the ensuing 25 or so years that has proved spot on. He reckoned that the one essential for a great driver is that they are fast from the word go. He said you could teach how to avoid crashing but not how to be faster than the rest.
He was full of praise for Hunt, saying that he saw him from his early days and guessed he would be WDC as he was so fast, albeit for the short periods of time he stayed on track. He reckoned he was an excellent driver. That was an unfashionable opinion in those days as JH was largely derided despite being WDC. It made me 'review' his career more logically and I have to say I think he was grossly underrated then. It's changed a bit since.
But I reckon being proved wrong about a team or driver is one of the great things about F1. It keeps you interested, keeps you looking, keeps you arguing. No matter how long you've been watching the sport, and I've followed it for nearly 45 years, it still remains unpredictable and surprises you.
Jenson is a top bloke, down to earth, funny, and quite talented. when i worked for honda racing i quite often had to go to bracknell HRD (in the honda racing f1 days) to collect/deliver staff bikes and the pit scooters. i was lucky enough to meet jenson on many an occasion, indeed, when i got married, we even got a card, passes for the brit gp and some signed genuine team wear from him, personally i cant see many f1 drivers being like that!!
i think the key to hamilton or button winning the wdc is not the talent,or the car, its the tactics used by mclaren, i just hope no stupid mistakes are made on the run in and we could quite possibly see a british 1-2 in the wdc and a british team win the cwc.
i think the key to hamilton or button winning the wdc is not the talent,or the car, its the tactics used by mclaren, i just hope no stupid mistakes are made on the run in and we could quite possibly see a british 1-2 in the wdc and a british team win the cwc.
I was never a Button fan but I am warming to him, however I still think some people are getting a bit carried away.
As soon as I heard he was going to Mclaren I immediately said he will be a great number 2 and do exactly what Kovalinen couldn't do and won't quite be the match that Alonso was for Mclaren...which was counter-productive obviously. Hamilton is the faster driver and he is the Mclaren number 1, everybody still knows this. Hamilton is outpacing Button at every race so far, but Button is doing exactly what Mclaren need and putting in consistently very good results.
Yes he is close to Hamilton in the points but lets not forget that is all down to the fortunate calls at Australia and China which whatever way you look at it were lucky and a big risk. Those 2 races got him 50 points but they could have led to 0...plus Lewis's retirement in Spain from 2nd place on the last lap. The championship points do not give the whole story and yes Hamilton is outdriving Button every weekend.
I always said Button is up the top of the second best group of F1 drivers, with drivers like Massa etc etc but Lewis and Alonso are definately slightly ahead. Lewis is consistently a couple of tenths or so faster than Button, and although Button has been close in races, Lewis has matured and realises he doesn't need to win by 1 minute and Canada proved that, he was coasting to make sure nothing went wrong until Button got too close and then pulled 1.5 seconds in a couple of laps. He has learned to play the long game a bit more and maybe that is something he has learned from Jenson..or what happened in Spain too?
Overall, Button has driven well and done exactly what Mclaren needed. He is also becoming alot more likeable - he was using so many excuses in the last 2/3 of '09, and even at the start of this season, but he seems to be stopping that. I still don't see him as a rival for Lewis...considering where his points have come from and what has happened every race weekend between the 2, but he is doing a great job, you can't fault what he has done and it is fantastic to see 2 British drivers in a British team leading the championships
As soon as I heard he was going to Mclaren I immediately said he will be a great number 2 and do exactly what Kovalinen couldn't do and won't quite be the match that Alonso was for Mclaren...which was counter-productive obviously. Hamilton is the faster driver and he is the Mclaren number 1, everybody still knows this. Hamilton is outpacing Button at every race so far, but Button is doing exactly what Mclaren need and putting in consistently very good results.
Yes he is close to Hamilton in the points but lets not forget that is all down to the fortunate calls at Australia and China which whatever way you look at it were lucky and a big risk. Those 2 races got him 50 points but they could have led to 0...plus Lewis's retirement in Spain from 2nd place on the last lap. The championship points do not give the whole story and yes Hamilton is outdriving Button every weekend.
I always said Button is up the top of the second best group of F1 drivers, with drivers like Massa etc etc but Lewis and Alonso are definately slightly ahead. Lewis is consistently a couple of tenths or so faster than Button, and although Button has been close in races, Lewis has matured and realises he doesn't need to win by 1 minute and Canada proved that, he was coasting to make sure nothing went wrong until Button got too close and then pulled 1.5 seconds in a couple of laps. He has learned to play the long game a bit more and maybe that is something he has learned from Jenson..or what happened in Spain too?
Overall, Button has driven well and done exactly what Mclaren needed. He is also becoming alot more likeable - he was using so many excuses in the last 2/3 of '09, and even at the start of this season, but he seems to be stopping that. I still don't see him as a rival for Lewis...considering where his points have come from and what has happened every race weekend between the 2, but he is doing a great job, you can't fault what he has done and it is fantastic to see 2 British drivers in a British team leading the championships
I wondered when I saw the tile of this thread how long it would be for you to come in and give Jenson a bit of a bash.
All this BS about his wins in China and Aus being lucky is cobblers, I bet that if it had been Lewis who had done the same, it would not be “lucky”, but skill.
Give the guy a break, he is doing a superb job, and is one of the Top drivers out there. You do not get to be WDC, second in the Championship and Very close to LH, who most agree is probably the quickest driver, certainly over one lap, by being second rate.
For myself, I am extremely proud that we have 2 Brits leading the way, Both driving superbly, and in a British Team.
I hope they pull off a one two at Silverstone, the crowd will drown out the cars if they do, and just to shut you up, I hope Jenson beats Lewis fair and square
All this BS about his wins in China and Aus being lucky is cobblers, I bet that if it had been Lewis who had done the same, it would not be “lucky”, but skill.
Give the guy a break, he is doing a superb job, and is one of the Top drivers out there. You do not get to be WDC, second in the Championship and Very close to LH, who most agree is probably the quickest driver, certainly over one lap, by being second rate.
For myself, I am extremely proud that we have 2 Brits leading the way, Both driving superbly, and in a British Team.
I hope they pull off a one two at Silverstone, the crowd will drown out the cars if they do, and just to shut you up, I hope Jenson beats Lewis fair and square
Edited by Mark A S on Thursday 17th June 10:27
A lot of people (myself included) underestimated him, well done on shutting us up Jenson 
he's really come of age this season.
ETA: for Matt above, you make your own luck in F1, the right calls, the smooth driving to conserve tyres, the cool head under pressure. It all adds up to make sure you bring home the points and its the points that win prizes.
Jenson may not be the fastest or most spectacular over a single lap, but over a race weekend he gets the job done. Both McLaren boys have impressed me this season.
he's really come of age this season.ETA: for Matt above, you make your own luck in F1, the right calls, the smooth driving to conserve tyres, the cool head under pressure. It all adds up to make sure you bring home the points and its the points that win prizes.
Jenson may not be the fastest or most spectacular over a single lap, but over a race weekend he gets the job done. Both McLaren boys have impressed me this season.
Edited by patmahe on Thursday 17th June 10:34
Mark A S said:
I wondered when I saw the tile of this thread how long it would be for you to come in and give Jenson a bit of a bash.
All this BS about his wins in China and Aus being lucky is cobblers, I bet that if it had been Lewis who had done the same, it would not be “lucky”, but skill.
Give the guy a break, he is doing a superb job, and is one of the Top drivers out there. You do not get to be WDC, second in the Championship and Very close to LH, who most agree is probably the quickest driver, certainly over one lap, by being second rate.
Yep, thats why Rosberg described China as lucky...and he decided to stay out before Button, Button followed. Plus in Australia, he had no choice other than to come in, because he was the only driver who couldn't seem to drive in the conditions. It is of course lucky, unless he can read the weather conditions. Had Lewis done it, yes it would still be down to luck. I was using these 2 races as an example of how the points don't quite give the whole story.All this BS about his wins in China and Aus being lucky is cobblers, I bet that if it had been Lewis who had done the same, it would not be “lucky”, but skill.
Give the guy a break, he is doing a superb job, and is one of the Top drivers out there. You do not get to be WDC, second in the Championship and Very close to LH, who most agree is probably the quickest driver, certainly over one lap, by being second rate.
Edited by Mark A S on Thursday 17th June 10:27
But from what you posted it looks like you haven't even read my reply as alot of it says he is doing a great job and he is one of the better drivers in F1 etc etc, I won't repeat it all, just read my first post as you obviously didn't before.
in the past IMO.I agree with the OP. I thought Button underperformed in 2002,3,6,7, and 08 relative to the pereceived level of his team mate. I wasn't a fan at all. But this year it has been a delight to watch two drivers with the confidence that a title brings win 4 races they really shouldn't have won.
And Button's performance v Hamilton has given me added respect for Rubens too, who outperformed Button in many races last year despite being the oldest in the field
And Button's performance v Hamilton has given me added respect for Rubens too, who outperformed Button in many races last year despite being the oldest in the field
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