Red Bull's quali performance explained?
Discussion
http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/splitter/2010/0...
Ok, so it's in German. I'll try & translate the important bits:- Apparently Red Bull have an electronic setting that allows a controlled, constant air pressure out of the exhaust system & into the (blown) diffusor that allows the cars to use maximium grip in the slower corners even when the throttle pedal isn't pressed.
Ok, so it's in German. I'll try & translate the important bits:- Apparently Red Bull have an electronic setting that allows a controlled, constant air pressure out of the exhaust system & into the (blown) diffusor that allows the cars to use maximium grip in the slower corners even when the throttle pedal isn't pressed.
Sounds like bowlux to me, given that the diffuser works by having high speed air flowing under it to create an area of low pressure and suck the car down there is no way that the engine is generating enough exhaust to generate that effect. Aero at low speed is pretty nonexistant, its all mechanical grip.
Sounds a bit dubious on the rules front too.
Sounds a bit dubious on the rules front too.
R1chardP said:
Sounds like bowlux to me, given that the diffuser works by having high speed air flowing under it to create an area of low pressure and suck the car down there is no way that the engine is generating enough exhaust to generate that effect. Aero at low speed is pretty nonexistant, its all mechanical grip.
Sounds a bit dubious on the rules front too.
650 litres a second. Or 23 cubic feet of air are sucked in. Plus the expanded gas generated from igniting the fuel. That's a fair old breeze. And one of the reasons they used to direct the engine gasses over the rear wing for extra downforce. Now pumping it through the defuser some how I'd think could generate downforce.Sounds a bit dubious on the rules front too.
From James Allen's site.
"One interesting observation is that Red Bull has a setting on the engine, whereby the ignition is retarded on the over run, which maintains exhaust gas pressure even when the driver lifts off the throttle. This maintains the performance of the blown diffuser and keeps the downforce up when it’s most needed. It’s not something you can do for more than a lap or two as it damages the engine, but it gives that vital fraction of a second which keeps Red Bull ahead of the rest in qualifying."
"One interesting observation is that Red Bull has a setting on the engine, whereby the ignition is retarded on the over run, which maintains exhaust gas pressure even when the driver lifts off the throttle. This maintains the performance of the blown diffuser and keeps the downforce up when it’s most needed. It’s not something you can do for more than a lap or two as it damages the engine, but it gives that vital fraction of a second which keeps Red Bull ahead of the rest in qualifying."
Munter said:
R1chardP said:
Sounds like bowlux to me, given that the diffuser works by having high speed air flowing under it to create an area of low pressure and suck the car down there is no way that the engine is generating enough exhaust to generate that effect. Aero at low speed is pretty nonexistant, its all mechanical grip.
Sounds a bit dubious on the rules front too.
650 litres a second. Or 23 cubic feet of air are sucked in. Plus the expanded gas generated from igniting the fuel. That's a fair old breeze. And one of the reasons they used to direct the engine gasses over the rear wing for extra downforce. Now pumping it through the defuser some how I'd think could generate downforce.Sounds a bit dubious on the rules front too.
I've got the feeling that RBR are well named. They like nothing better than starting a few rumours about where their performance comes from. A quick aside to a journo, an overheard conversation and suddenly it's because they've painted bits of their car purple.
They use their tyres well.
i reckon it's because they have a moveable floor, oversized barge boards and similar stuff.
They use their tyres well.
i reckon it's because they have a moveable floor, oversized barge boards and similar stuff.
Bombjack said:
This would have a significant effect at every medium or high speed corner that isn't normally taken flat. Clever work, and it explains the pattern for Red Bull's qualy performances where they always pull the truly fast laps out only in Q3.
It's not that much of a bombshell though is it, the teams with better cars don't need to run flat out to beat the likes of HRT, Virgin and Lotus who always go out in Q1 or the mid level teams that are eliminated in Q2. Given the restrictions on engines, gearboxes and tyres they are probably only really nailing it in Q3 hence a quick time.R1chardP said:
Bombjack said:
This would have a significant effect at every medium or high speed corner that isn't normally taken flat. Clever work, and it explains the pattern for Red Bull's qualy performances where they always pull the truly fast laps out only in Q3.
It's not that much of a bombshell though is it, the teams with better cars don't need to run flat out to beat the likes of HRT, Virgin and Lotus who always go out in Q1 or the mid level teams that are eliminated in Q2. Given the restrictions on engines, gearboxes and tyres they are probably only really nailing it in Q3 hence a quick time.Why is this news on here? Everyone has known about the RBR low exhaust/diffuser set up since February when they tried to deflect from it with stickers of exhaust exits in the normal place. They knew then what they had and the other teams all know now.
Other teams have certainly developed equivalents and will be running them soon. Whether they get them to work as well, we'll see.
Other teams have certainly developed equivalents and will be running them soon. Whether they get them to work as well, we'll see.
Another thought. When blown diffusers were last used, they directed the exhaust in such a way that they got maximum downforce on throttle at the expense of variability in downforce on trailing or part throttle - they sacrificed stability to eke out that maximum downforce.
I had heard our current generation of blown diffusers were less aggressive in their use of the exhaust gasses in order to maintain stability. However this engine management trick might enable a more aggressive "old-school" use of the exhaust, if the team wanted to favour qualifying over race pace. Given a sufficiently flexible design, this could even be varied from circuit to circuit.
I had heard our current generation of blown diffusers were less aggressive in their use of the exhaust gasses in order to maintain stability. However this engine management trick might enable a more aggressive "old-school" use of the exhaust, if the team wanted to favour qualifying over race pace. Given a sufficiently flexible design, this could even be varied from circuit to circuit.
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