Discussion
woof said:
Lot's of politics going on at the moment. illegal cars, lot's odd performance gains going on !
Yep, sounds like you spent the day with the Honda team.They were no doubt moaning about Ford who have been working hard on LPG put a lot of time into it. They ran at the back of the field (no one battered an eyelid) now after all the hard work they have it working with the legal 2011 turbo engine spec car they are allowed to race with. Despite the extra weight of the LPG tank at the rear upsetting the balance as the fuel burns off and no engine braking they do have a quick car in a straight line (terrible in most corners though) and Honda (Matt Neal) moans about it because he gets overtaken down the straight, forgetting he has maximum ballast on the car. I don't recall any Ford winning at the weekend though.
Didn't I hear Matt Neal talking about four wheel steering on his Civic with regard to his setup in the Saturday wet sessions? I didn't know you could buy Honda Civics with 4WS.
Too many mixed regulations for different types of cars running to different series rules, 2011 turbo cars (Focus & Jordan's Vectra), current ST2000 cars (BMW, Chev, Civics) and past BTCC spec cars (e.g Honda Integra). I'm not surprised people call foul so often.
BTCC has always been about bending the rules i guess
The fords did have a 10 mile advantage on the straights which is a pretty big advantage!
But Plato still got away from them, skill over BHP i guess.
Honda's struggled all weekend but didn't test the week before.
ITV's coverage is good - but it's really tucked away on ITV4 - wonder what the viewing figures are like ?!
G0ldfysh said:
Matt Neal, moaning and b
hing after he didn't win even after trying to bump the other driver off. There is a surprise.
Is it just me, or does he come across as a bit of a?
Bit of a hing after he didn't win even after trying to bump the other driver off. There is a surprise. Is it just me, or does he come across as a bit of a
? is a understatement the guy is complete always maoning an knocking people off I really dont like him, I am a JP fan but I do love to see Gordon beat Neal.Matt's a mate - so it does piss me off about the amount of flak he gets.
Yep a few seasons back there was alot of bashing. But they were all at it.
btw - Collard got a points and penalty for pushing Matt off on the last lap.
Years ago Jason was the bad guy. Matt was the peoples champion
These days Jason's done some great PR and now he's looked upon as the good guy and Matt now plays the bad guy - but it's all pantomime and without Matt and Jason - the BTCC wouldn't be as entertaining as it can be ( this weekend wasn't great ).
Yep a few seasons back there was alot of bashing. But they were all at it.
btw - Collard got a points and penalty for pushing Matt off on the last lap.
Years ago Jason was the bad guy. Matt was the peoples champion
These days Jason's done some great PR and now he's looked upon as the good guy and Matt now plays the bad guy - but it's all pantomime and without Matt and Jason - the BTCC wouldn't be as entertaining as it can be ( this weekend wasn't great ).
Edited by woof on Monday 9th August 13:05
FourWheelDrift said:
Didn't I hear Matt Neal talking about four wheel steering on his Civic with regard to his setup in the Saturday wet sessions? I didn't know you could buy Honda Civics with 4WS.
I didn't hear this, but he might have been referring to passive rear wheel steer, which most modern cars have built into the suspension kinematics in one way or anotheronomatopoeia said:
woof said:
Does seem odd that we don't even discuss the BTCC on here anymore ?
woof said:
BTCC has always been about bending the rules i guess
The fords did have a 10 mile advantage on the straights which is a pretty big advantage!
But Plato still got away from them, skill over BHP i guess.
Honda's struggled all weekend but didn't test the week before.
ITV's coverage is good - but it's really tucked away on ITV4 - wonder what the viewing figures are like ?!
having had a read around ive heard it was as little as 2mph not the 10mph advertised by the commentators.The fords did have a 10 mile advantage on the straights which is a pretty big advantage!
But Plato still got away from them, skill over BHP i guess.
Honda's struggled all weekend but didn't test the week before.
ITV's coverage is good - but it's really tucked away on ITV4 - wonder what the viewing figures are like ?!
woof said:
BTCC has always been about bending the rules i guess
The fords did have a 10 mile advantage on the straights which is a pretty big advantage!
But Plato still got away from them, skill over BHP i guess.
actually watched the races, and I (much as it grieves me!) I agree with Plato/Neal, the Ford is a joke.The fords did have a 10 mile advantage on the straights which is a pretty big advantage!
But Plato still got away from them, skill over BHP i guess.
both of them plain horsepower'ed past in half the length of the pit straight - and this was with the smaller restrictor.
what's the point in racing like this when this kind of thing happens?
I have a hard time understanding why they allow a turbo car to compete with NA ones, that's always going to cause issues unless you have some CC equivalence or the line, restrictors only limit ultimate power, not how you get there.
asides that, I though the racing was actually quite lame, but at least it was relatively clean this time.
onomatopoeia said:
woof said:
Does seem odd that we don't even discuss the BTCC on here anymore ?
Had a cracking race home with Rob - GT2 vs vette
Munter said:
They are trying things which other more experienced racers believe can't be done. And sometimes they pull it off.
I used to pull off some outrageous moves in Caterham club racing and make it stick. It's a bit more difficult when you're going much faster on slicks, and there's a perennial line of tyre debris off line to catch you out.Trying to pull off moves that 'can't be done' amongst more experinced drivers usually ends up with a visit to the stewards
woof said:
Spent the day with Honda Racing - brilliant day. Sun was out, racing was OK.
Does seem odd that we don't even discuss the BTCC on here anymore ?
Must have been great to spend the day with Honda, I really rate Shedden as a tin top driver. he seems very quick and is a very clean racer, kind of like Turkington who is now doing very well in the WTCC Does seem odd that we don't even discuss the BTCC on here anymore ?
I think you will find we dont talk about the BTCC on here anymore is because every thread turns into people moaning about how its not as good as the 90s and how the cars are nothing like the old Sierra Rs500's!
Anyway it was a good days racing I thought. While there wasnt a huge amount of passing there was plenty of tight battles which I dont mind, its when they get spread out that I get bored!
Well done to Plato. It really does seem like they have that Chevvy sorted now and on the twistier tracks it could be very hard to beat! I wish he would stop moaning about the fords though, he does seem to have a very short memory
Was great to see Jackson up there fighting after a much improved qualy. I didnt think much of the TOC incident, it just looked like 2 drivers that both really didnt want to give up one little bit.
A bit of mis-information going on here about the Fords it seems.
They are NOT running a 2011 spec engine, what they have is a full blown 2010 spec 2 litre motor with a turbo running circa 0.8 Bar to 'compensate' for the lower calorific value of LPG. They are miles faster than anyone else on the straights, even with a slower corner exit speed, and they have more torque when exiting the corners. The chassis is, by all accounts, average but if it wasn't for the fact that Tom Chilton is massively inconsistent and T O-C keeps failing scruiteneering checks they would be miles ahead of everyone.
On the subject of the BMW first gear, last year they were completely unbeatable off the line to the point where they could be sixth on the grid and still lead into the first corner with ease. The rules were changed to placate the other teams and manufacturers who weren't able to develop an RWD car within the rules, even if they wanted to.
They are NOT running a 2011 spec engine, what they have is a full blown 2010 spec 2 litre motor with a turbo running circa 0.8 Bar to 'compensate' for the lower calorific value of LPG. They are miles faster than anyone else on the straights, even with a slower corner exit speed, and they have more torque when exiting the corners. The chassis is, by all accounts, average but if it wasn't for the fact that Tom Chilton is massively inconsistent and T O-C keeps failing scruiteneering checks they would be miles ahead of everyone.
On the subject of the BMW first gear, last year they were completely unbeatable off the line to the point where they could be sixth on the grid and still lead into the first corner with ease. The rules were changed to placate the other teams and manufacturers who weren't able to develop an RWD car within the rules, even if they wanted to.
Nothing against Tom Chilton, but spot on, totally inconsistent.
Race 2 was a joke - Onslow-Cole is a pretty good peddler - obviously massively quicker than Chilton but it was equally obvious that he was told "The car infront is slower than you - do you understand?"
Shame because I reckon Onslow-Cole could of caught Plato and given us a race, instead of him having to throttle back down the straights !
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