Stefan bellof and elio de angelis
Discussion
Both are in my memory only very hazily, it's when I first became aware of f1, but how good were they against their contemporaries? I seem to recall being upset at hearing about bellof because he was regarded as being very very good, and with potential, whereas with de angelis it was more because I liked him as opposed to any enormous success he had.
Bellof's F1 carreer was only just starting when he was taken. He was yet to get a good, front running car with due respect to Tyrell at the time. De Angelis had a bit of a rich kid reputation IIRC and a Pianist in real life. Cannot help thinking that De Angelis just would have faded away while Bellof could have been a great.
Bellof was rated as highly as Senna through the lower formulae. He was a prodigious talent, but the flaws, that Senna had, came through worse. He was ruthless and would take massive risks.
His death, I am sure, was partly due to him trying to outdo the establishment. He was racing Jacky Ickx at Spa in a Porsche 956. Ickx was the King on top of the mountain at the time.
The modern equivalent would be Tom Kristensen in an Audi R10 at the Le Mans.
Bellof wanted to put one over on Ickx. What would be bigger than overtaking him around the outside of Eau Rouge?
Bellof excelled in the ground effect Sports cars. He seemed to truely understand going faster to gain grip.
I truely believe that he could have been World Champion. He would have had formidable opposition though...
His death, I am sure, was partly due to him trying to outdo the establishment. He was racing Jacky Ickx at Spa in a Porsche 956. Ickx was the King on top of the mountain at the time.
The modern equivalent would be Tom Kristensen in an Audi R10 at the Le Mans.
Bellof wanted to put one over on Ickx. What would be bigger than overtaking him around the outside of Eau Rouge?
Bellof excelled in the ground effect Sports cars. He seemed to truely understand going faster to gain grip.
I truely believe that he could have been World Champion. He would have had formidable opposition though...
Mazda Baiter said:
Bellof was rated as highly as Senna through the lower formulae. He was a prodigious talent, but the flaws, that Senna had, came through worse. He was ruthless and would take massive risks.
Bellof's pre-F1 career was pretty amazing. But then so was Brundle with Senna in F3 and look what happened to him... Having said that in 1984 I reckon generaly Bellof had the upper hand over Brundle in the Tyrell, but only just. Brundle sometime heading him but Bellof the more consistent race to race overall. Schumi was just as consistent as Bellof over Brundle but almost always had the upper hand - a but more so then Bellof. Brundle was a pretty good yet very inconsistent driver.
Mazda Baiter said:
Bellof excelled in the ground effect Sports cars. He seemed to truely understand going faster to gain grip.
I truely believe that he could have been World Champion. He would have had formidable opposition though...
Don't disagree with that. But to become a legend it seems you have to die before you came to full fuition.I truely believe that he could have been World Champion. He would have had formidable opposition though...
harry010 said:
Bellof was a mega talent; iirc he was catching Prost and Senna hand over fist at Monaco 84, and had the race gone on, it would have most likely ended with a Bellof victory, not Senna as everyone seems to think.
This card is overly played. The wet conditions massively suited the NA Tyrell. Senna meanwhile had the same disadvantage in the wet as the rest of the turbo runners and was far faster than them all... but yeah Bellof may well have won that race.Alas we will never truly know about Bellof and I guess that's the real crime of mortality.
harry010 said:
Bellof was a mega talent; iirc he was catching Prost and Senna hand over fist at Monaco 84, and had the race gone on, it would have most likely ended with a Bellof victory, not Senna as everyone seems to think.
Ive always thought the most likely outcome in that situation was still Prost winningSenna and Bellof would have both been in the barriers
freedman said:
harry010 said:
Bellof was a mega talent; iirc he was catching Prost and Senna hand over fist at Monaco 84, and had the race gone on, it would have most likely ended with a Bellof victory, not Senna as everyone seems to think.
Ive always thought the most likely outcome in that situation was still Prost winningSenna and Bellof would have both been in the barriers
The interesting thought about the '84 race I always think, is what would have happened had Marty B not had a massive accident in practice and had been in the race where the Tyrrells were pretty good. It could have been like the previous season's British F3 championship.
Derek Smith said:
I always wondered what Mansell and de Angelis talked about.
One was a concert-standard pianist. Guess which.
The both disliked one another at first, de Angelis envious of Mansell's speed (which actually wasn't that great at the time), Mansell because he considered de Angelis to be Peter Warr's favoured son. For reasons neither could fathom later, they ended up becoming very good friends.One was a concert-standard pianist. Guess which.
harry010 said:
Eric Mc said:
Not forgetting that the Tyrells ran illegally for most of the 1984 season (they were underweight) abnd had all their points taken away.
True but I don't think that really has much to do with Bellof's talent as a driver, he drove the car they gave him. I always thought that he was too fast for his own good and was not altogether surprised when he was killed. Somne drivers have an air about them which indicates that maybe they will just take a chance once too often.
Justayellowbadge said:
How might things have gone, I wonder, for Didier Pironi, if he hadn't had his accident?
1982 world champion.After that...who knows.
'82 was a very odd season. No driver won more than 2 GPs. Rosberg, the champion that year, only won one.
Then we must get onto the conversation of Villeneuve Sr...
The SB death was a big impact because he was simply the most recognised naturally gifted, fastest bloke around. He was the annointed Heir To Gilles. We forget in these days of Senna worship that SB was more highly regarded than AS by quite a way.
He was also the first guy I remember that folk were openly talking of in fatalistic terms. He was being talked of as too fast to live long. I remember this very clearly for within a cpl of years the same things were being said of Henri T...
To my mind, these 2 really were the lost stars of the 80s. They were pure, natural talent. Senna was Senna of course, but his speed came from some inner obsession with his own personal demons/angels. SB and Henri T were just plain fast as f
k on natural talent and bks alone.
That lack of anything else to temper those , control them, harness them of course is what cost them their lives.
He was also the first guy I remember that folk were openly talking of in fatalistic terms. He was being talked of as too fast to live long. I remember this very clearly for within a cpl of years the same things were being said of Henri T...
To my mind, these 2 really were the lost stars of the 80s. They were pure, natural talent. Senna was Senna of course, but his speed came from some inner obsession with his own personal demons/angels. SB and Henri T were just plain fast as f
k on natural talent and bks alone.That lack of anything else to temper those , control them, harness them of course is what cost them their lives.
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