kers! vs the f duct?

[pjfunny]

does anyone know why they would ban the f duct in favour of the heavier kers system it seems strange to me.

[davepoth]

Some of the F Duct designs required the driver to take their hand off the wheel at 200mph, which is not clever. IIRC the KERS is a spec unit for next year, which reduces cost.

We also have adjustable rear wings next year which also do a similar job to the F Duct.

[BelperJim]

KERS has never been out of the sport the teams just decided between them not to use it. The FIA banned the F-Duct in a similar vein to banning the double diffuser and wheel covers.

KERS is also supposed to help promote hybrid technology I believe.

[350Matt]

Pretty sure that it won't be the same KERS unit across the board - although marelli will essentially sell you a Renault system

[Rugbyman]

Im sure I heard someone say during or after the last GP coverage that KERS and a properly functioning adjustable rear wing could add an extra 160bhp !!!!!!

Could this be right or did I miss hear ..... ?

it seems an awful lot tbh

[jains15]

Yeah brundle said that, he then went on to say how scary he thought it sounded!

[seansverige]

davepoth said:

IIRC the KERS is a spec unit for next year, which reduces cost

Are you sure? the BBC team were discussing how strong McLaren's and I think they also asked a Renault blokey how their development was going during the forum. Whilst there's plenty that should be spec items, I don't this should.

Whilst it may, at some point, possibly, maybe, theoretically, lead to something with roadgoing relevance I've mixed feelings about it's return: my recollections of KERS of '09 is of allowing an inferior car to defend rather than a superior car to pass....

[SamHH]

Rugbyman said:

Im sure I heard someone say during or after the last GP coverage that KERS and a properly functioning adjustable rear wing could add an extra 160bhp !!!!!!

Could this be right or did I miss hear ..... ?

it seems an awful lot tbh

The regulations allow KERS to deliver a maximum of 80 bhp for about seven seconds. Of course, the adjustable rear wing won't add any power, but apparently the speculation is that, in the situations where it can be used, it will give an increase in speed equivalent to an extra 80 bhp.

[SamHH]

seansverige said:

davepoth said:

IIRC the KERS is a spec unit for next year, which reduces cost

Are you sure? the BBC team were discussing how strong McLaren's and I think they also asked a Renault blokey how their development was going during the forum. Whilst there's plenty that should be spec items, I don't this should.

There will not be a spec KERS system next year. It was mooted, but they didn't go for it.

[anonymous-user]

KERS is a total waste of time and money for F1. It was simply conceived as part of a poorly thought out 'green F1' agenda. There's nothing green about it in this context and road car manufacturers don't use F1 for product development (except in their marketing BS of course).

[TonyHetherington]

seansverige said:

my recollections of KERS of '09 is of allowing an inferior car to defend rather than a superior car to pass....

Exactly how I remember it Slower car would get out of the corner just quickly enough that the faster (but further back) car behind would be too far back to overtake at the next corner. Of course, next year they will ALL have KERS which evens the playing field a bit more (rather than no KERS vs KERS)

[anonymous-user]

I'm not a fan of KERS at all, it feels 'artificial' in its concept

[Alfie Noakes]

I have often heard people wonder where the term FDuct came from.

Am I the only one to notice this:

Fduct < remove the "d" = Fuct (as in "the opposition").

[johnnywb]

Alfie Noakes said:

I have often heard people wonder where the term FDuct came from.

Am I the only one to notice this:

Fduct < remove the "d" = Fuct (as in "the opposition").

It comes from the fact the intake sat on the 'F' of 'Vodafone' on the nose of the Mclaren i believe?

[TonyHetherington]

Jonny - correct, that's how it became known as the F-Duct by press/media. However, McLaren never called it that, it was something technically like "R122" (I forget but it was something like that).

[flemke]

TonyHetherington said:

seansverige said:

my recollections of KERS of '09 is of allowing an inferior car to defend rather than a superior car to pass....

Exactly how I remember it Slower car would get out of the corner just quickly enough that the faster (but further back) car behind would be too far back to overtake at the next corner. Of course, next year they will ALL have KERS which evens the playing field a bit more (rather than no KERS vs KERS)

But was that not because of the artificial limit in '09 on how much the device could operate each lap?
McLaren began to develop a KERS-type device more than a decade ago. The FIA gave preliminary approval, McLaren spent a load of time and money on it, then at the last hurdle the FIA for some strange reason changed their minds about whether it would be allowed. This epiphany supposedly occurred to them over a bowl of pasta somewhere...
I believe that, if a free area, KERS could make a substantial net contribution to a racing car's performance.
Btw, is it a dead-cert that Mercedes, who primarily funded McLaren's successful KERS last year, would supply to McLaren the successor system next year?

[TonyHetherington]

flemke said:

But was that not because of the artificial limit in '09 on how much the device could operate each lap?

Not sure I follow - it was the slower, but KERS equipped, car in front that I was remembering (Kovalinen, for example) but a faster, but non-KERS equipped car, behind couldn't overtake.

[angusfaldo]

Sorry for being off topic and puerile but I can't wait 'til they design a KERS system that runs across a Wide Area Network..

[skinny]

TonyHetherington said:

flemke said:

But was that not because of the artificial limit in '09 on how much the device could operate each lap?

Not sure I follow - it was the slower, but KERS equipped, car in front that I was remembering (Kovalinen, for example) but a faster, but non-KERS equipped car, behind couldn't overtake.

the fia limited the capability of the system with the amount of energy that could be stored, rates of charge (i think) etc which resulted in drivers being able to deploy about 60bhp from memory for about 7 seconds per lap. however, the systems were much more capable than that.

if they gave it free reign, it just *might* actually become useful and relevant. still wouldn't help the racing

[Alfie Noakes]

Mr Leggard told me that he feared if KERS was given a free reign the engines would become obsolete.