Big changes in F1 for 2013

[PhillT]

Maybe I missed this if it was posted before, but...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula...
Small front wings and downforce reduction? Sounds good to me.

ETA: More explanation here. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/2010/12/fo...

Edited by PhillT on Tuesday 21st December 13:23

[dpbird90]

Basically, it'll be like the early 80s, but with much safer cars?

[disco1]

Sounds good to me, 4 pot turbo engines, KERS, small yet variable wings, slicks, harder to drive, fast cornering, more overtaking, more skill on show rather than tech. I couldn't care less if we're not at the pinnicle of technology so long as the racing is good. Now, all we need is some old school tracks for them:

Thailand = No
Russia = No
Bahrain = No
Turkey = No
Valencia = No
Korea = No
etc
etc

[sirtyro]

Can't they bring back the V10? or make it so the turbo's will be 1500bhp and only have to last 1 race

[cosicave]

Finally, the evidence many have been hoping for, for a long time.

I'm all for it, so long as the spectacle is improved and the responsibility of the driver is maintained at a premium (rather than diluted by increased pit crew involvement).

A great prospect. And let's face it, F1 can afford to get a little slower!

[nsmith1180]

I like my F1 as it is thanks. A properly close battle.

[Sam.F]

I wish they would stop trying to change it every couple of years - the racing would be better if they left the rules as they are for a few seasons.

Did you see the part that they want the average lap full throttle time to be 50% instead of 70%? I think that's a rather worrying prospect!

[350Matt]

4 pots!!!!

rubbish, cheap, nasty, don't balance properly, these are supposed to be world class engines not something you could find under the bonnet of a focus or golf if VW's wet dream comes to fruition

[cosicave]

Sam.F said:

I wish they would stop trying to change it every couple of years - the racing would be better if they left the rules as they are for a few seasons.

Did you see the part that they want the average lap full throttle time to be 50% instead of 70%? I think that's a rather worrying prospect!

Hmm… let's see. How would you like it if full throttle could be maintained for 100% of the time? Then ask yourself which presents the greater challenge to the driver…

Motor-racing which is no challenge is not worth watching and will put me out of a job.

[Paul_M3]

cosicave said:

Sam.F said:

I wish they would stop trying to change it every couple of years - the racing would be better if they left the rules as they are for a few seasons.

Did you see the part that they want the average lap full throttle time to be 50% instead of 70%? I think that's a rather worrying prospect!

Hmm… let's see. How would you like it if full throttle could be maintained for 100% of the time? Then ask yourself which presents the greater challenge to the driver…

Motor-racing which is no challenge is not worth watching and will put me out of a job.

Exactly, make corners like Eau Rouge a challenge again, and not an easy flat out curve.

However I am a bit concerned that full throttle usage will drop from 70% to 50%, despite the engines new limitations. I'd quite like part of the reduction in the ability to use full throttle to be because the engines were more powerful.

I just hope they aren't aiming for a fair bit less power, and significantly less downforce. After all, it does still need to the Formula which produces the quickest lap times.

[davepoth]

Paul_M3 said:

cosicave said:

Sam.F said:

I wish they would stop trying to change it every couple of years - the racing would be better if they left the rules as they are for a few seasons.

Did you see the part that they want the average lap full throttle time to be 50% instead of 70%? I think that's a rather worrying prospect!

Hmm… let's see. How would you like it if full throttle could be maintained for 100% of the time? Then ask yourself which presents the greater challenge to the driver…

Motor-racing which is no challenge is not worth watching and will put me out of a job.

Exactly, make corners like Eau Rouge a challenge again, and not an easy flat out curve.

However I am a bit concerned that full throttle usage will drop from 70% to 50%, despite the engines new limitations. I'd quite like part of the reduction in the ability to use full throttle to be because the engines were more powerful.

I just hope they aren't aiming for a fair bit less power, and significantly less downforce. After all, it does still need to the Formula which produces the quickest lap times.

Power is still targeted at 750bhp. Lots more KERS (I think it's "always on" and variable with the throttle) too, which means loads of torque, in fact probably more than now. Same power + less grip = More Sideways.

[cosicave]

Paul_M3 said:

…However I am a bit concerned that full throttle usage will drop from 70% to 50%, despite the engines new limitations. I'd quite like part of the reduction in the ability to use full throttle to be because the engines were more powerful.

I just hope they aren't aiming for a fair bit less power, and significantly less downforce. After all, it does still need to the Formula which produces the quickest lap times.

Yes, I like the idea of mega-powerful cars too, but from a practical point of view, they have to go around relatively small circuits which are easy to view, as well as maintaining a high degree of safety. And unpopular as it may be to us who have a keen interest, F1 has to play a political game with the greens in order to assure its longevity.

Do not worry about your last point: Formula 1 will still be the quickest way around a circuit.

[nsmith1180]

We could get more manufacturers in there too, hows about VXR F1? Thats what I don't like. Current F1 has a passing link to Aspirational road cars not the entry level Insignia.

[H100S]

Loose adjustable wings, loose some buttoms/dials on the steering wheel bring back manual gear changes too. I loved to see a driver make a poor gear change, loose a position then fight to get it back again. Happy with turbo engine but more torque and fill every car with the same ammount of fuel to avoid fuel saving mode.

Award points for qualifing top ten too.

Maybe a bit extreme but they could even use universal front & rear wings to make aero less of a issue and engineers work harder in other areas that maybe help road cars in future?

Edited by H100S on Tuesday 21st December 20:41

Edited by H100S on Tuesday 21st December 20:43

[disco1]

350Matt said:

4 pots!!!!

rubbish, cheap, nasty, don't balance properly, these are supposed to be world class engines not something you could find under the bonnet of a focus or golf if VW's wet dream comes to fruition

Why can't a small engine with turbos/KERS be world class? Do you really think a 2013 F1 car engine will be similar to a VAG FSI unit??????????????

[Allyc85]

H100S said:

Maybe a bit extreme but they could even use universal front & rear wings to make aero less of a issue and engineers work harder in other areas that maybe help road cars in future?

NO, NO, NO, NO!

[H100S]

Allyc85 said:

H100S said:

Maybe a bit extreme but they could even use universal front & rear wings to make aero less of a issue and engineers work harder in other areas that maybe help road cars in future?

NO, NO, NO, NO!

I did say a bit extreme!

Down side cars start to look too similar, takes away some of the developement battle, inovation and interpreation of the rules
Up side FIA reduce risk of cheating, reduce the cost to teams, possibly even make racing more closer?

Just a thought.

[davepoth]

disco1 said:

350Matt said:

4 pots!!!!

rubbish, cheap, nasty, don't balance properly, these are supposed to be world class engines not something you could find under the bonnet of a focus or golf if VW's wet dream comes to fruition

Why can't a small engine with turbos/KERS be world class? Do you really think a 2013 F1 car engine will be similar to a VAG FSI unit??????????????

Actually, if VW ever did come to F1, it might just be.

http://www.cncheads.co.uk/audi18bv.html

The 1.8T engine can be made to do 550hp in that race car, and the company that did it can make it do 700+hp. Shorten the bore a little to get it down to 1.6, and wind the boost up some, and I'm sure it would make the required power.

One of the reasons that the FIA have chosen blown 1.6 engines is so that the blocks designed for WRC use can be used quite easily for F1, which vastly increases the potential number of possible engine manufacturers. Remember the most powerful engine of the previous F1 turbo era was the BMW, which used engine blocks taken out of used 1502s.

[nsmith1180]

davepoth said:

disco1 said:

350Matt said:

4 pots!!!!

rubbish, cheap, nasty, don't balance properly, these are supposed to be world class engines not something you could find under the bonnet of a focus or golf if VW's wet dream comes to fruition

Why can't a small engine with turbos/KERS be world class? Do you really think a 2013 F1 car engine will be similar to a VAG FSI unit??????????????

Actually, if VW ever did come to F1, it might just be.

http://www.cncheads.co.uk/audi18bv.html

The 1.8T engine can be made to do 550hp in that race car, and the company that did it can make it do 700+hp. Shorten the bore a little to get it down to 1.6, and wind the boost up some, and I'm sure it would make the required power.

One of the reasons that the FIA have chosen blown 1.6 engines is so that the blocks designed for WRC use can be used quite easily for F1, which vastly increases the potential number of possible engine manufacturers. Remember the most powerful engine of the previous F1 turbo era was the BMW, which used engine blocks taken out of used 1502s.

But why do we need more engine manufacturers? I know we are at a 30 year low or something stupid like that, but 12 teams with four engine suppliers works for me. OK Cosworth need to work on the engine a bit and improve their client base a bit, but the other three have 1 top of the grid team, one middle of the grid team and one lower down the grid team.

Merc - VodaMclaren, MercGP and Forced Entry (opps I mean India of course)
Ferrari - ScudFezz, ScudToroRosso and BMW Sauber (that one always made me laugh, but the have dropped the BMW now )
Renault - RBR, Renault F1 Lotusy people, Team Lotus Renaluty People
Cosssie - Williams, HRT, Virgin

That works for me, otherwise we are just going to have more cars dropping out with mechanical DNFs as fewer units sold each year will limit the engine makers on the amount of R&D they can do to get the engines to last 3 races.

[stew-S160]

H100S said:

Allyc85 said:

H100S said:

Maybe a bit extreme but they could even use universal front & rear wings to make aero less of a issue and engineers work harder in other areas that maybe help road cars in future?

NO, NO, NO, NO!

I did say a bit extreme!

Down side cars start to look too similar, takes away some of the developement battle, inovation and interpreation of the rules
Up side FIA reduce risk of cheating, reduce the cost to teams, possibly even make racing more closer?

Just a thought.

Watch F3 or FPA then. As that is what you pretty much described.
As for fluffed gear changes, with the modern tech, that is highly unlikely today even with a H pattern.