Chapman family back Group Lotus/Renault
Discussion
I'm kind of surprised by this as Hazel Chapman has been very supportive of Tony Fernandez
Chapman family backs Group Lotus plans
Will Fernandes be able to use Team Lotus?The family of Colin Chapman has thrown its support behind Group Lotus's ambitions with the Renault team, after expressing its view that it would prefer the Team Lotus name not to return to Formula 1.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88759
To be fair, imagine if Mr. Fernandez (Who seems to be a nice bloke and has done very well for a new team) came along and hadn't had the permission of Group Lotus last year to use the name. Just rocked up "here's my new team, I've bought the rights to use the Team Lotus name so you should call us Team Lotus now", PH would be up in arms! "Ooh! some malaysian with his Air aisia team bought the rights and thinks he's team Lotus!" etc.
I've got nothing against the bloke, I've never met him and I wish him all the best, but can you see where I'm coming from?
In my eyes the authentic Lotus is whatever team Clive and Hazel back.
You think with its massive 3rd party engineering arm the men and women at Hethel won't be the first port of call if "renault" ever want outside assistance to develop the cars?
I've got nothing against the bloke, I've never met him and I wish him all the best, but can you see where I'm coming from?
In my eyes the authentic Lotus is whatever team Clive and Hazel back.
You think with its massive 3rd party engineering arm the men and women at Hethel won't be the first port of call if "renault" ever want outside assistance to develop the cars?
crofty1984 said:
In my eyes the authentic Lotus is whatever team Clive and Hazel back.
Which would be simple, if they didn't change their mind after only one season...People (Chapman family, Proton etc) need to understand that F1 teams can't be formed into a success overnight. If you back a team you need to be in for the long haul, giving up on them after one season (where they had minimal preparation time) is ridiculous.
Really, I think this whole saga is doing a massive dis-service to the lotus name. It's a shame that the people that are relying on this name (Group Lotus, Proton, Chapman Family) don't seem to be able to see this.
And lets be honest, that press release says Hethel will always be the true home of Lotus.. are the Renault team going to relocate then... I doubt in somehow!
crofty1984 said:
You think with its massive 3rd party engineering arm the men and women at Hethel won't be the first port of call if "renault" ever want outside assistance to develop the cars?
Possibly not becuase, quite ironically, a lot of the guys at Lotus cars with F1 experience jumped ship to the 1maylasia operation when it opened up down the round..! Lotus cars are good at engineering, no doubt, but the difference between road cars and F1 cars is massive.Edited by NightDriver on Thursday 23 December 20:51
crofty1984 said:
To be fair, imagine if Mr. Fernandez (Who seems to be a nice bloke and has done very well for a new team) came along and hadn't had the permission of Group Lotus last year to use the name.
Team Lotus and Group Lotus (Lotus cars) have always been different companies. Tony F. brought the rights to use the Team Lotus name from the owner David Hunt - no, I didn't know why the hell David Hunt 'owned' the rights to the Team Lotus name.To be honest the whole thing is a mess.
Totally agree with you about Tony F.
I just love that he has the flat cap on the prat perch with the notice 'In case of win break open'!
crofty1984 said:
In my eyes the authentic Lotus is whatever team Clive and Hazel back.
I see where your coming from and agree.crofty1984 said:
You think with its massive 3rd party engineering arm the men and women at Hethel won't be the first port of call if "renault" ever want outside assistance to develop the cars?
I hope so, that is what Group Lotus does best and have done so for many years.Seems like another slap in the face for the 1Malaysia team. Can't anyone at Group Lotus see that they've done a good job(and now have a sizeable fanbase)? Why not get behind them rather than dragging the Lotus name through the proverbial mud, even if it does seem like it may take a little longer to start racking up the podium finishes? It all looks like a God-awful mess from where I'm sitting.
Still, it may all prove to be quite fortunate for 1Malaysia if Group Lotus' current business plans go the way a lot of people fear they may......
Still, it may all prove to be quite fortunate for 1Malaysia if Group Lotus' current business plans go the way a lot of people fear they may......
skeggysteve said:
Totally agree with you about Tony F.
I just love that he has the flat cap on the prat perch with the notice 'In case of win break open'!
And that cap was presented to 1Malaysia by Clive Chapman at the beginning of the 2010 season.I just love that he has the flat cap on the prat perch with the notice 'In case of win break open'!
It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that Bahar has been making noises about the "Classic Team Lotus" name and suggesting that there might be some court proceedings around the Chapmans use of the word Lotus there too.
Edited by marshalla on Thursday 23 December 20:48
marshalla said:
And that cap was presented to 1Malaysia by Clive Chapman at the beginning of the 2010 season.
It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that Bahar has been making noises about the "Classic Team Lotus" name and suggesting that there might be some court proceedings around the Chapmans use of the word Lotus there too.
Very perceptive....or could it just have been that Clive is in a grumpy mood (again)...in reality, though, it is a shame that Clive should have felt the need to take sides at all, or that pressure may have been applied in any way to him to make that decision. What I do know is that I won't be asking him the reasons why - I'm not ready to get my head bitten off at this time of year! It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that Bahar has been making noises about the "Classic Team Lotus" name and suggesting that there might be some court proceedings around the Chapmans use of the word Lotus there too.
DSM2 said:
crofty1984 said:
In my eyes the authentic Lotus is whatever team Clive and Hazel back.
There's no such thing as 'the authentic Lotus ' team.Neither party has any real claim to the history and it makes no difference whether the family back them or not.
What is all this arse licking about the Lotus name and it's heritage. Rose tinted specs. all round it seems. If it was Easter rather than Christmas I be thinking 30 pieces of silver.
Try reading it this way:
"The Chapman Family is impressed by the exciting developments underway at Group De Lorean, and it is very grateful to The British Tax Payer for the significant investment that is being made, to secure a strong future for the excellent workforce at the Belfast factory," stated Chapman.
"In 2010 the Chapman Family and Classic Team De Lorean have been pleased to support Group De Lorean in many ways. In consultation with The British Tax Payer, this included supporting the use of the De Lorean name in Formula 1, which was licensed by Group De Lorean.
"The Chapman Family was impressed by the achievements of De Lorean Racing as a new team, and appreciated its respect for Team De Lorean history. However, then its license to use the De Lorean name was terminated and things changed."
Try reading it this way:
"The Chapman Family is impressed by the exciting developments underway at Group De Lorean, and it is very grateful to The British Tax Payer for the significant investment that is being made, to secure a strong future for the excellent workforce at the Belfast factory," stated Chapman.
"In 2010 the Chapman Family and Classic Team De Lorean have been pleased to support Group De Lorean in many ways. In consultation with The British Tax Payer, this included supporting the use of the De Lorean name in Formula 1, which was licensed by Group De Lorean.
"The Chapman Family was impressed by the achievements of De Lorean Racing as a new team, and appreciated its respect for Team De Lorean history. However, then its license to use the De Lorean name was terminated and things changed."
Streps said:
Something about that just does not seem right
And Dany Bahar just seems like a snake to me.
Bahar wants to own an F1 team - He's done bloody well for himself - running Red Bull at the age of 35 - then over to Ferrari (head of branding) and now the CEO of Proton. And Dany Bahar just seems like a snake to me.
"During his tenure at Red Bull, the intrepid Turk transformed the energy drink company from a simple sponsor into team owners, first acquiring Red Bull Racing from Ford when Jaguar's F1 team went bust, then going in on an unprecedented second team – Scuderia Toro Rosso – and even spearheading Toyota's entry into NASCAR in a team owned by... you guessed it, Red Bull. Bahar also orchestrated the deal that brought Ferrari power to Red Bull last season and to STR for 2007."
But equally he must have an ego to size of (something big). All this nonsense is driven by his ego - and that can't be a good thing
marshalla said:
skeggysteve said:
Totally agree with you about Tony F.
I just love that he has the flat cap on the prat perch with the notice 'In case of win break open'!
And that cap was presented to 1Malaysia by Clive Chapman at the beginning of the 2010 season.I just love that he has the flat cap on the prat perch with the notice 'In case of win break open'!
It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that Bahar has been making noises about the "Classic Team Lotus" name and suggesting that there might be some court proceedings around the Chapmans use of the word Lotus there too.
Edited by marshalla on Thursday 23 December 20:48
I dunno - I can't see how the Chapman family would want to fight Proton for the rights to the Lotus name the same way TF has. This seems like a sensible way out for them. I hate what Behar is doing, why couldn't he just have done the sensible thing and got behind the Lotus team that was already in F1?
You see for me, when I read the article the telling piece is "team lotus" has it's place in history, where it should remain. Agreed.
Clive chapman is not Colin Chapman, his agenda is not necessarily Colin Chapman's, its what works for him, I mean it might be what he thinks is his best in Colin's memory maybe, or maybe not... It doesn't matter really. Colin Chapman is dead and gone. He was Lotus. Team lotus.
Chapman to history.
His old car company wants to go racing. Fine.
Air Asia. Litespeed. Absolutely f
k all to do with Colin Chapman. The name 'Team Lotus' is a name, sold on... That is all.
Clive chapman is not Colin Chapman, his agenda is not necessarily Colin Chapman's, its what works for him, I mean it might be what he thinks is his best in Colin's memory maybe, or maybe not... It doesn't matter really. Colin Chapman is dead and gone. He was Lotus. Team lotus.
Chapman to history.
His old car company wants to go racing. Fine.
Air Asia. Litespeed. Absolutely f
k all to do with Colin Chapman. The name 'Team Lotus' is a name, sold on... That is all.Edited by Northern Munkee on Saturday 25th December 19:29
For me it was TF who brought the Lotus name back into F1 and, in my eyes, that makes his team the true Lotus team.
To me what DB has done is prove that he is an unprincipaled (instert word of choice) who opportunisticly rode the wave of TF´s hard work and money re-establishing the name Lotus in F1.
I am also deeply saddened that Autosport (doubtless for the good of Haymarket´s access to Lotus road cars in the future) has chosen to nail it´s colours to the Group Lotus effort which is no more a Lotus than the Merc F1 is a Merc, perhaps less so given that they can´t even claim they make the engine.
Poor show from everyone involved, save TF.
To me what DB has done is prove that he is an unprincipaled (instert word of choice) who opportunisticly rode the wave of TF´s hard work and money re-establishing the name Lotus in F1.
I am also deeply saddened that Autosport (doubtless for the good of Haymarket´s access to Lotus road cars in the future) has chosen to nail it´s colours to the Group Lotus effort which is no more a Lotus than the Merc F1 is a Merc, perhaps less so given that they can´t even claim they make the engine.
Poor show from everyone involved, save TF.
I disagree surely the "chapman thing to do" would be Tony F doing his own thing, making his own "heritage" creating his own "legacy".'that would have been the honest thing to do. I said at the time (not that it matters)... But it holds true to this day. Although I never expected it to get this messy. But of course it has... And in truth it is no surprise, and in retrospect quite predictable it would end in tears. Point being Clive Chapman changes sides?! Or does he? He backed the licensing of "lotus racing" licensed from "group lotus" for 2010 to Tony F. Now he supports group lotus into f1. To me he knows/looks to the long game. Where the "chapman family" best interest is served. End of.
At the end of 1990, the Chapman family sold Team Lotus to Peter Collins and Peter Wright, Team Lotus then raced on for the 91, 92, 93 and most of 94 season as Team Lotus with no input from the Chapman family. Towards the end of 94, Team Lotus filed for administration, David Hunt then bought the team and it raced with his ownership for the last two F1 races of 94, with Mika Salo driving, before closing shop, so the last owner of Team Lotus was David Hunt.
Based on that i think Group Lotus would have some dificulty in proving Team Lotus isnt a completely different entitity to Group Lotus and doesn't have a fair call on the that name, having purchased it from the last owner to run under that banner, David Hunt.
Based on that i think Group Lotus would have some dificulty in proving Team Lotus isnt a completely different entitity to Group Lotus and doesn't have a fair call on the that name, having purchased it from the last owner to run under that banner, David Hunt.
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