2011 WRC not looking that interesting after all!
Discussion
I know some will say its never interesting but i am a big fan of the WRC and was looking forward to possibly a bit of variety this year with the new S2000 rules, but i was disapointed when i took a look at the current line up..................Citroen, Ford and a couple of Mini's
It seem more of the same then!!
Here is a link to the list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_World_Rally_Cham...
It seem more of the same then!!Here is a link to the list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_World_Rally_Cham...
I remember a well known rally driver being interviewed at the Castle Combe Rallyday about the 2010 spec cars and he said they were slow and boring. That was in 2009 and I don't think he's going to be far off the mark.
The purpose of the rules and promotion of WRC seems to be to drive all spectator and enthusiast interest off the planet. I'm not saying we need to quite go back to Group-B, but the prospect of even slower s
ttier cars, televised on a minority satellite channel, and utterly dominated by Sebastien Loeb makes me want to get the wallpaper paste out instead.
It's such a shame. Rallying used to be so good once.
The purpose of the rules and promotion of WRC seems to be to drive all spectator and enthusiast interest off the planet. I'm not saying we need to quite go back to Group-B, but the prospect of even slower s
ttier cars, televised on a minority satellite channel, and utterly dominated by Sebastien Loeb makes me want to get the wallpaper paste out instead.It's such a shame. Rallying used to be so good once.
corozin said:
I remember a well known rally driver being interviewed at the Castle Combe Rallyday about the 2010 spec cars and he said they were slow and boring. That was in 2009 and I don't think he's going to be far off the mark.
The purpose of the rules and promotion of WRC seems to be to drive all spectator and enthusiast interest off the planet. I'm not saying we need to quite go back to Group-B, but the prospect of even slower sttier cars, televised on a minority satellite channel, and utterly dominated by Sebastien Loeb makes me want to get the wallpaper paste out instead.
It's such a shame. Rallying used to be so good once.
i can only assume the 'management' have their own agenda. The WRC must be popular elsewhere in its current guise because i agree, it used to be good.The purpose of the rules and promotion of WRC seems to be to drive all spectator and enthusiast interest off the planet. I'm not saying we need to quite go back to Group-B, but the prospect of even slower s
ttier cars, televised on a minority satellite channel, and utterly dominated by Sebastien Loeb makes me want to get the wallpaper paste out instead.It's such a shame. Rallying used to be so good once.
corozin said:
I remember a well known rally driver being interviewed at the Castle Combe Rallyday about the 2010 spec cars and he said they were slow and boring. That was in 2009 and I don't think he's going to be far off the mark.
It's such a shame. Rallying used to be so good once.
The 2010 cars slow? Im pretty sure down a stage they would beat a group B car, even if they arnt half as spectacular! It's such a shame. Rallying used to be so good once.
But im guessing you mean the new cars are going to be slow, but Dave Richards of Prodrive rekons the new 1.6 Turbo cars will be nearly as quick as the previous spec
If the inlet restrictor is the same dimensionally for the 1.6 turbos as the current 2.0 turbos the engine performance will be nearly identical! The NA S2000 cars are quite a bit slower out of the tight corners as they lack the 650Nm+ torque of the current wrc cars.
All are a bit boring tbh, i think we should get back to 2wd (rear) and a class / ballast structure to equalise stage times, that way we can watch things like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZq6gNommQk
or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7STp_5vEmY
or if forced to have 4x4, this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xO4IZeuAPU
All are a bit boring tbh, i think we should get back to 2wd (rear) and a class / ballast structure to equalise stage times, that way we can watch things like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZq6gNommQk
or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7STp_5vEmY
or if forced to have 4x4, this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xO4IZeuAPU
macd355 said:
the restrictor is 1mm smaller ie. 33mm instead of 34mm.
For a std atmosphere that's a 5.8% reduction of intake mass flow, so i expect power to be reduced by the same factor (assuming the engine's have the same BSAC (they might find a small friction improvement from the smaller engines, but this is likely to be offset by the requirement to increase boost pressures to move the same volume of air through a small capacity engine (assuming peak power rpms are maintained as for the 2.0s)That means the works cars will be down from circa 340bhp to circa 320bhp - with torque probably not affected as much- that's not enough of a reduction to slow them down much!!
Who cares?, I don't, couldn't care less. Rallying is dead a buried as far as im concerned. THe FIA have succeeded in making it a complete yawn fest at every opportunity, and at the same time priced the fans off the stages.
F1 is going in the same direction
BTCC - Joke.
not that im bitter or anything
Edit:
Max Torque, i would drive a long way to go see hirvonen driving that porker. THat is awesome
F1 is going in the same direction
BTCC - Joke.
not that im bitter or anything
Edit:
Max Torque, i would drive a long way to go see hirvonen driving that porker. THat is awesome
Edited by philis on Monday 17th January 23:09
Max_Torque said:
macd355 said:
the restrictor is 1mm smaller ie. 33mm instead of 34mm.
For a std atmosphere that's a 5.8% reduction of intake mass flow, so i expect power to be reduced by the same factor (assuming the engine's have the same BSAC (they might find a small friction improvement from the smaller engines, but this is likely to be offset by the requirement to increase boost pressures to move the same volume of air through a small capacity engine (assuming peak power rpms are maintained as for the 2.0s)That means the works cars will be down from circa 340bhp to circa 320bhp - with torque probably not affected as much- that's not enough of a reduction to slow them down much!!
Shame nobody will be able to watch it.
The cars appear to be in the main a class lower than the cars from last year.
I think the big problem we have now with rallying is that Loeb is too successful. The rule changes, even if they're to make it more competitive, won't help until he's finished or someone can properly challenge him.
Also, they need to sort out the special stages. Rallies are becoming too short. They need to be a proper endurance test.
http://targa.org.au/Tasmania/targatasmania_home.ht...
Stick that on the calendar, and I bet we'd have some fun.
I think the big problem we have now with rallying is that Loeb is too successful. The rule changes, even if they're to make it more competitive, won't help until he's finished or someone can properly challenge him.
Also, they need to sort out the special stages. Rallies are becoming too short. They need to be a proper endurance test.
http://targa.org.au/Tasmania/targatasmania_home.ht...
Stick that on the calendar, and I bet we'd have some fun.
We were promised that 2011 would be the start of a new era for the WRC. So, is it? Apart from the new reg cars 1.6T, as opposed to the 2.0T not a lot has changed. Yet another Ford v Citroen season, with BMW-Mini joining midway through.
So where are all the other Manufacturers? Rumours abound of VW, Saab, etc joining, yet nothing concrete. The sport badly needs more marques joining – meaning more competition and more drivers with seats – there are still too many talented drivers without drives, while ‘rich boys’ turn up with a new car.
The sport has been run appallingly badly in the last 5-10 years – and this is what we are left with – a sport largely ignored by most media, public, car makers, etc
There is a small bright spot – the new regs allow for more expansive routes – and the Acropolis will have a proper night stage this year – good news. Let’s hope the RallyGB organisers get off their backsides and sort a decent route for a change – that event needs a giant shot up it’s backside.
Maybe 2012 is the year when the WRC gets some of it’s mojo back.
So where are all the other Manufacturers? Rumours abound of VW, Saab, etc joining, yet nothing concrete. The sport badly needs more marques joining – meaning more competition and more drivers with seats – there are still too many talented drivers without drives, while ‘rich boys’ turn up with a new car.
The sport has been run appallingly badly in the last 5-10 years – and this is what we are left with – a sport largely ignored by most media, public, car makers, etc
There is a small bright spot – the new regs allow for more expansive routes – and the Acropolis will have a proper night stage this year – good news. Let’s hope the RallyGB organisers get off their backsides and sort a decent route for a change – that event needs a giant shot up it’s backside.
Maybe 2012 is the year when the WRC gets some of it’s mojo back.
davepoth said:
Also, they need to sort out the special stages. Rallies are becoming too short. They need to be a proper endurance test.
This.Many people seem to be hung up on the cars, and yes there is a bit of an issue with them, these people seem to forget that rallying IS NOT about spectator appeal, it's about competitor appeal..... and the big turn off for most competitors is the short sprint type, repeat stage, no night stage type events we now have..... as well as being in less than interesting cars.
Most people I know that used to compete, have gone over to historic rallying now, as if they are forced to do sprint type events, at least they can do it in 'fun' cars.
I am hoping 2012 will hold a longer manufacturer line up like the old days. As far as i was aware the new rules are designed to encourage big names back to the game. Im not too bothered with the changes to the cars, im sure they will still be interesting to watch. What i really want is to see a line up like there would be 12 years ago when i went to see my first rally!! Skoda, Ford, Hyundai, Renault, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Citroen, Peugeot, Toyota plus many other makes. It made for a far more interesting rally and there was far more competition!!
Edited by Evil.soup on Tuesday 18th January 14:09
i'd wait for a few events this year before judging how good it will be, if the ford and citroen are close then it could be a good year, yes Loeb has won a lot but in at least two of those titles he was run very close by gronholm and then hirvonen.
The media/ public interest in this country is more about the drivers involved than the state of the sport. If you look at france there is a lot of interest and there are a lot of french drivers coming through the ranks because of citroen and loeb and when we had mcrae and burns the sport was big here too, thats the way you pull in the casual fans. A similar thing is spain with F1 and the effect Alonso had, transforming the sports following almost overnight. If the mini project with Kris Meeke really takes off it'll quickly change the sports profile
I hadn't been to rallygb before last year and it did change my view of it, the wrc cars as driven by the top 6-8 drivers were very impressive (more so than i expected) and equally you can see the difference on the stage in the skill of some of the production and s2000 crews compared to some of the brit crews doing the event in similar machines. All of those production and s2000 guys are paying to rally, but they're still bloody good drivers
The media/ public interest in this country is more about the drivers involved than the state of the sport. If you look at france there is a lot of interest and there are a lot of french drivers coming through the ranks because of citroen and loeb and when we had mcrae and burns the sport was big here too, thats the way you pull in the casual fans. A similar thing is spain with F1 and the effect Alonso had, transforming the sports following almost overnight. If the mini project with Kris Meeke really takes off it'll quickly change the sports profile
I hadn't been to rallygb before last year and it did change my view of it, the wrc cars as driven by the top 6-8 drivers were very impressive (more so than i expected) and equally you can see the difference on the stage in the skill of some of the production and s2000 crews compared to some of the brit crews doing the event in similar machines. All of those production and s2000 guys are paying to rally, but they're still bloody good drivers
WRC is suffering on several fronts.
It's having a similar crisis to F1 when Schumacher was dominating in the early 2000's. People get bored because Loeb just wins virtually every rally. It's not Loeb's fault he's so good, it's the others for not being good enough, however it doesn't help viewing figures
The coverage is woeful. Any sport covered by a channel called 'Dave' is on to a loser straight off.
Stages are now set up for spectators but they've taken the spectacle away. Night stages, looooooong daytime stages and the like used to be a real driver challenge. Now they're all bland.
They've got rid of some good rallies (the Safari being notable) and the ones they do have are on some weird rotation system. Can you imagine even F1 (who like a bit of self-destruction sometimes) saying :
"You know our blue chip race in Monaco, you know the one where all the sponsors and rich people are? Well, we're not running that this year so we can race in Argentina instead"
Madness, and yet WRC continue to rotate one of their most historic and charismatic rallies.
The cars aren't the real problem IMO. They need to sort out the spectacle.
It's having a similar crisis to F1 when Schumacher was dominating in the early 2000's. People get bored because Loeb just wins virtually every rally. It's not Loeb's fault he's so good, it's the others for not being good enough, however it doesn't help viewing figures
The coverage is woeful. Any sport covered by a channel called 'Dave' is on to a loser straight off.
Stages are now set up for spectators but they've taken the spectacle away. Night stages, looooooong daytime stages and the like used to be a real driver challenge. Now they're all bland.
They've got rid of some good rallies (the Safari being notable) and the ones they do have are on some weird rotation system. Can you imagine even F1 (who like a bit of self-destruction sometimes) saying :
"You know our blue chip race in Monaco, you know the one where all the sponsors and rich people are? Well, we're not running that this year so we can race in Argentina instead"
Madness, and yet WRC continue to rotate one of their most historic and charismatic rallies.
The cars aren't the real problem IMO. They need to sort out the spectacle.
I'd agree on the coverage, after enjoying the two days i spent in wales i was amazed at how boring they managed to make it look on the dave broadcast, and really over reliant on the onboard cameras presumably because it's easier to collect the footage from them in time for the evening broadcast. I saw a number of tv crews and cameras on the stages i was on (usually filming the top 20 and then moving on which isn't great either) but none of those locations were used in the dave show
Go to an event live, pick a decent spot to watch, and the commitment and speed of the top 5-6 WRC, and top s2000's is mindblowing! Then watch on TV, and it's nothing like what you've seen. They completely dilute what happens.
These new S1.6T cars are going to need a more aggressive driving style, which should mean great action - what we want are another 2,3,4 marques joining and it could be a really super series. Another year of Fords and Citroens is beginning to grate.
These new S1.6T cars are going to need a more aggressive driving style, which should mean great action - what we want are another 2,3,4 marques joining and it could be a really super series. Another year of Fords and Citroens is beginning to grate.
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