Fuel cell certificate

[wadsapple]

Does anyone know, if a new fuel cell in bunded ali box has to be cetified by MSA or FIA.Again i can't see anythink in the blue book about it.The one i fitted in car 77 last year was an A.T.L which i think are FIA approved.I want to buy the cell from an american company who have an UK agent but no certificates.

perry

[Guillotine]

Not needed for MSA only FIA...in FIA series.

Cert then req'd every 5 years.
Should be removed and sent back. Most buy again.

A

[wadsapple]

cheers andy

[450Nick]

Yup you don't need a cert to race outside of the FIA events. I've got an ATL in mine but the cert's out of date. I'll probably replace it in a year or two but I still doubt I'll need to for cert reasons - more likely the foam will need replacing.

[Guillotine]

just done that on mine Nick...horrible job...or so they told me

[sarbec]

I have fitted a ATL fuel cell in the tasmin its been fitted in the rear of the car the cell is in a alloy box with a lid that clips all round.
Do I have to insulate the tank from the driver have read the blue book but im not sure if the alloy box the fuel cell is in would be regarded as the insulation between the fuel tank & the driver can anyone help ?

[Graham]

sarbec said:

I have fitted a ATL fuel cell in the tasmin its been fitted in the rear of the car the cell is in a alloy box with a lid that clips all round.
Do I have to insulate the tank from the driver have read the blue book but im not sure if the alloy box the fuel cell is in would be regarded as the insulation between the fuel tank & the driver can anyone help ?

I dont think the alloy box is enough, although I may be wrong. Where is the filler. the filler and pipe also needs to be isolated from the driver compartment

[TVRleigh_BBWR]

sarbec said:

I have fitted a ATL fuel cell in the tasmin its been fitted in the rear of the car the cell is in a alloy box with a lid that clips all round.
Do I have to insulate the tank from the driver have read the blue book but im not sure if the alloy box the fuel cell is in would be regarded as the insulation between the fuel tank & the driver can anyone help ?

Hi Do you have a link to the one you fitted in your tasmin and where exactly you have fitted it, as looking into changing mine.

AFAIK your have to have another layer seperating the fuel tank and filler from the inside of the car, also the filler will need to be outside, but I'm sure someone who knows more will give you an update.

Edited by TVRleigh_BBWR on Monday 24th January 14:30

[Chassis 33]

The blue book says

19.1.1. Have a bulkhead between any fuel tank and filler and the driver/passenger compartment sufficient to prevent the passage of flame or liquid. Where a fuel tank constitutes part of the bulkhead between the passenger and luggage compartments, an additional bulkhead must be fitted.

My take on that is that the alloy box is part of the fuel tank forming a bulkhead so an extra secondary bulkhead is required.

For those who don't know the Blue Book is on line, the two sections that are of real interest to folks building roundy roundy racing cars are
http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_forms/blueb...
http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_forms/blueb...
It's not rocket science to do a search within these sections. The interpretation is something of a black art though

Regards
Iain

[sarbec]

Graham said:

sarbec said:

I have fitted a ATL fuel cell in the tasmin its been fitted in the rear of the car the cell is in a alloy box with a lid that clips all round.
Do I have to insulate the tank from the driver have read the blue book but im not sure if the alloy box the fuel cell is in would be regarded as the insulation between the fuel tank & the driver can anyone help ?

I dont think the alloy box is enough, although I may be wrong. Where is the filler. the filler and pipe also needs to be isolated from the driver compartment

Thought you could run braided fuel pipes through the car

[Graham]

sarbec said:

Graham said:

sarbec said:

I have fitted a ATL fuel cell in the tasmin its been fitted in the rear of the car the cell is in a alloy box with a lid that clips all round.
Do I have to insulate the tank from the driver have read the blue book but im not sure if the alloy box the fuel cell is in would be regarded as the insulation between the fuel tank & the driver can anyone help ?

I dont think the alloy box is enough, although I may be wrong. Where is the filler. the filler and pipe also needs to be isolated from the driver compartment

Thought you could run braided fuel pipes through the car

braided fuel lines from the tank, through a bilkhead yes.

filler pipe and filler into the tank must be isolated.

this has been done in the past on a taz by mounting the tank in the passenger side, with a cover over the top, and then a screw cover over the top of the filler.

[wadsapple]

Chassis 33 said:

It's not rocket science to do a search within these sections. The interpretation is something of a black art though

Regards
Iain

Thanks very much Iain for your continued help with the blue book,the most difficult book iv'e stuggled with over the last two years or so building tuscans.Like you say interpretation is the key and i agree with your take of the words so far.

with the tazmin tank,if you think the alloy box, that the cell is in, needs a bulk head between it and driver then my thoughts are it could be a fibre glass cover/box, lined in heat sheild ,should be a cheapish answer, effectivly cell,then alloy,then fire proofed glassfibre box,i'm putting a fire nossel outlet in the tank area as well .how do you read it ?

Edited by wadsapple on Monday 24th January 19:28

[Graham]

Grp bulkhead is fine. That's all the challenge car has.

[cwin]

I rang the MSA Scrutineers about this and they said the alloy box/container can be used as the bulk head, also the filler hose needs to be a hose inside another hose (the outer on being alloy or steel), we had this last year with the Tuscan and the filler neck through the rear window.

Hope this helps.

Craig

[sarbec]

cwin said:

I rang the MSA Scrutineers about this and they said the alloy box/container can be used as the bulk head, also the filler hose needs to be a hose inside another hose (the outer on being alloy or steel), we had this last year with the Tuscan and the filler neck through the rear window.

Hope this helps.

Craig

Thanks Craig thats a big help can carry on with the rest of the mods
ivor

[GTO NEMESIS]

Hi,
Can anyone let me know if the information detailed in this post is still current?
I want to fit an alloy fuel cell to my track car which I plan on running in MSA events in September.

This is the current rule in the blue book:

Safety Fuel Cells
4.1. The FIA approved standard for Safety Fuel Cells
is FIA/Spec./F3 and FT.5. Fuel cells complying with
this standard are only manufactured by authorised
companies and bear the name of the company,
specification, code and date of manufacture stencilled
on each cell. No other cells are approved by
the FIA.
4.2. Under FIA regulations the homologation expires
once the cell is five years old. The validity of this
homologation may be extended for a further two years
if the cell is inspected and recertified by the original
manufacturer.
4.3. It is recommended that any safety cell is
periodically inspected on a regular basis.


Thanks
Mark