Marlboro Ferrari??

[disco1]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88996

I thought tobacco money was outlawed in sport/F1 regardless of international/local law on morality grounds?

[Stu R]

Sponsorship wise it is, team ownership it isn't.

[touring fan]

disco1 said:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88996

I thought tobacco money was outlawed in sport/F1 regardless of international/local law on morality grounds?

Displaying tobacco brands is outlawed.
Taking money from them isn't!

[andyps]

I am pretty sure the law in Europe is that any sponsorship from tobacco companies is not allowed, however, I am also pretty sure that Philip Morris and Fiat know more about the regulations than I do so there must be something they are doing which allows this to be allowed. As far as I know Philip Morris don't own the Ferrari team so it can't be that, it has been said that the deal is that Philip Morris/Marlboro own the rights to the appearance of the car and sell on space on it, but don't know if that is really how it works.

Whatever the deal it strikes me it must be within the wording of the regulation, if not within the spirit of it. Reflects the way F1 operates!

[mically]

Although a sponsor - it could be that we never see the name?
I can't remember the last time I saw Marlboro on either the car/ uniform/ pits or on their vehicles.

They're there - but not there

[AlpineWhite]

mically said:

Although a sponsor - it could be that we never see the name?
I can't remember the last time I saw Marlboro on either the car/ uniform/ pits or on their vehicles.

They're there - but not there

This is exactly it.

Those of you spouting on about team ownership are wrong.

[G0ldfysh]

Bloke at work has suggested that the Renault Lotus team in black and gold might not be allowed to run in Canada because of this. As the colours are too close to JPS which are sold in Canada.

Anyone else heard this? Google search didn't show me anything so I'm expecting blarney but made for good pre racing gossip by the coffee machine.

[mically]

G0ldfysh said:

Bloke at work has suggested that the Renault Lotus team in black and gold might not be allowed to run in Canada because of this. As the colours are too close to JPS which are sold in Canada.

Anyone else heard this? Google search didn't show me anything so I'm expecting blarney but made for good pre racing gossip by the coffee machine.

I would call codswallop on this
You can't ban colours on the mere perception of associated sponsorship.

Ferrari for example, are Red with white.
Red being Ferrari.
Red and White being Santander
Red and White being Marlboro.

Black and Gold is far beyond just being a classic livery - it's iconic to F1, Lotus and Colin Chapman.

They will have no other indications to JPS other than the colours; which Ferrari use for Marlboro (as well as for themselves and Santander.)

[Stu R]

AlpineWhite said:

mically said:

Although a sponsor - it could be that we never see the name?
I can't remember the last time I saw Marlboro on either the car/ uniform/ pits or on their vehicles.

They're there - but not there

This is exactly it.

Those of you spouting on about team ownership are wrong.

You mean those of us spouting facts? The team is called 'Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro'. Fact. Do you think it'd be called that if Marlboro weren't sponsoring them? No, of course not.

[ajprice]

The 2011 Ferrari F1 logo

http://uk.autoblog.com/2010/07/09/ferrari-reveals-...



Now, double that design and mirror it...



Marlboro? Nah, nothing like it

[Shotgun Rider]

G0ldfysh said:

Bloke at work has suggested that the Renault Lotus team in black and gold might not be allowed to run in Canada because of this. As the colours are too close to JPS which are sold in Canada.

Anyone else heard this? Google search didn't show me anything so I'm expecting blarney but made for good pre racing gossip by the coffee machine.

The story is out there.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/18012011/58/lotus-re...

[touring fan]

I think there's more to the Lotus / JPS colour scheme than just a bit of nostalgia.

It's called sponsorship.

Check out the 3rd story down; http://joesaward.wordpress.com/

[SamHH]

Stu R said:

AlpineWhite said:

mically said:

Although a sponsor - it could be that we never see the name?
I can't remember the last time I saw Marlboro on either the car/ uniform/ pits or on their vehicles.

They're there - but not there

This is exactly it.

Those of you spouting on about team ownership are wrong.

You mean those of us spouting facts? The team is called 'Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro'. Fact. Do you think it'd be called that if Marlboro weren't sponsoring them? No, of course not.

There is a difference between sponsoring something and owning it; I think that is what AlpineWhite is talking about.

[bob1179]

I really never understood the ban on tobacco advertising in motorsport. It brings in a lot of revenue.

After all, does seeing 'Marlboro' on the side of a racing car or bike make you go 'Ooooooo, I must buy a packet of cigarettes right now!'?

[homer3uk]

ajprice said:

The 2011 Ferrari F1 logo

http://uk.autoblog.com/2010/07/09/ferrari-reveals-...



Now, double that design and mirror it...



Marlboro? Nah, nothing like it

Big tabacco has so much money they have to spend it somewhere. Sport, especially motor sport has always been the best way for them to use whatever disposible income they have. These day's it has become harder to do so they just come up with more ingenious ways of doing it. If you look close enough you'll always find a connection. Like the bar code. They got away with that for as long as they posibley could.
As stated about the Black/Gold Lotus. Not much you can do about team colours. Just logo's and wording.

[Muzzer]

SamHH said:

Stu R said:

AlpineWhite said:

mically said:

Although a sponsor - it could be that we never see the name?
I can't remember the last time I saw Marlboro on either the car/ uniform/ pits or on their vehicles.

They're there - but not there

This is exactly it.

Those of you spouting on about team ownership are wrong.

You mean those of us spouting facts? The team is called 'Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro'. Fact. Do you think it'd be called that if Marlboro weren't sponsoring them? No, of course not.

There is a difference between sponsoring something and owning it; I think that is what AlpineWhite is talking about.

I wait to be corrected but AIUI, Marlboro don't own the team, but they do own the car. If that makes sense.

Marlboro pay Ferrari for sponsorship of the whole car, every inch IINM. They then sub-let areas of the car to other sponsors and partners of Ferrari.

This may have changed a bit with the arrival of Santander, but that was always the deal Ferrari had with Philip Morris...

[andyps]

Muzzer said:

I wait to be corrected but AIUI, Marlboro don't own the team, but they do own the car. If that makes sense.

Marlboro pay Ferrari for sponsorship of the whole car, every inch IINM. They then sub-let areas of the car to other sponsors and partners of Ferrari.

This may have changed a bit with the arrival of Santander, but that was always the deal Ferrari had with Philip Morris...

That is essentially what I was saying above - how it can be classed as ownership rather than sponsorship is the interesting point. Even if the contract says it is ownership of the visual imagery of the car, or physical ownership of the actual racing car, it is really a cash injection into the Ferrari F1 team which happens with many other organisations and is seen as sponsorship. It can hardly be a technical partnership!

[AlpineWhite]

SamHH said:

Stu R said:

AlpineWhite said:

mically said:

Although a sponsor - it could be that we never see the name?
I can't remember the last time I saw Marlboro on either the car/ uniform/ pits or on their vehicles.

They're there - but not there

This is exactly it.

Those of you spouting on about team ownership are wrong.

You mean those of us spouting facts? The team is called 'Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro'. Fact. Do you think it'd be called that if Marlboro weren't sponsoring them? No, of course not.

There is a difference between sponsoring something and owning it; I think that is what AlpineWhite is talking about.

Sam - yep that's right.

Stu - keep your hair on / handbag down.