2011 WRC - no spoilers
Discussion
Right now I know I'm an oldy but I come from a time when the various countries rallies - like the RAC Rally had entries like SAAB, Volvo, Ford, Citroen, MG, Vauxhall, FIAT, etc etc
Last years WRC was all just Citroen v Ford and watching this years TV coverage of the Swedish Rally it would seem "second verse same as the first".
If the TV coverage is to be believed there were around 13 competitors, 6 Fords, 4 Citroens, 2 Skoda S2000 cars and a Subaru who didn't get a mention even when it reached 10th place for a while.
The cars are smaller with the same power but 20% less torque and less gismos but to be honest its just the same as last year with no variety. That said the top 5 were close together for much of the event but how long will that last?
Where's me pipe & slippers off to look at some old vids of Chevette HSRs, BDA Escorts, TR8s, Stratos, SAAB 95/96, FIAT 131,s, Volvo 240, Minis, Skoda with John Haugland....
Last years WRC was all just Citroen v Ford and watching this years TV coverage of the Swedish Rally it would seem "second verse same as the first".
If the TV coverage is to be believed there were around 13 competitors, 6 Fords, 4 Citroens, 2 Skoda S2000 cars and a Subaru who didn't get a mention even when it reached 10th place for a while.
The cars are smaller with the same power but 20% less torque and less gismos but to be honest its just the same as last year with no variety. That said the top 5 were close together for much of the event but how long will that last?
Where's me pipe & slippers off to look at some old vids of Chevette HSRs, BDA Escorts, TR8s, Stratos, SAAB 95/96, FIAT 131,s, Volvo 240, Minis, Skoda with John Haugland....
It's funny you mention this, because on most forums, everybody is pretty positive about the new rules/regs.
But I do know were you're coming from - it's probably the lack of variety of cars. What we need are new Manufacturers - say 5,6,7 Manufacturers with 2-3 factory seats would bring a huge improvement. But I think other marques are waiting to see how it all goes before deciding whether the WRC is worth it. Add in the lack of mainstream coverage, and there is a lot of improvement to come.
However, i think the signs are positive - 3 weeks until Mexico, were Loeb will have an ideal road position.
But I do know were you're coming from - it's probably the lack of variety of cars. What we need are new Manufacturers - say 5,6,7 Manufacturers with 2-3 factory seats would bring a huge improvement. But I think other marques are waiting to see how it all goes before deciding whether the WRC is worth it. Add in the lack of mainstream coverage, and there is a lot of improvement to come.
However, i think the signs are positive - 3 weeks until Mexico, were Loeb will have an ideal road position.
just finished watching what espn put together of rally sweden, it was much better than anything dave have shown, big increase in actual stage footage of the cars rather than a camera pointing at loebs face, followed by an interview with loeb at the end of the stage, then another camera pointing at another drivers face etc etc
The cars do look a lot better on the stages and move around a lot more than they did (for now at least) more manufacturers would be good and some kind of control on the spec of car divers use, one big factor in sweden was all the drivers having the same spec rather than works machines being much better and privateers going with what they can get
I do wonder how much work it would take for Skoda to make a WRC version of the s2000, given that the fiesta is based on the fiesta s2000 and the mini is being rallied in both s2000 and wrc flavours, seems an obvious thing to do?
The cars do look a lot better on the stages and move around a lot more than they did (for now at least) more manufacturers would be good and some kind of control on the spec of car divers use, one big factor in sweden was all the drivers having the same spec rather than works machines being much better and privateers going with what they can get
I do wonder how much work it would take for Skoda to make a WRC version of the s2000, given that the fiesta is based on the fiesta s2000 and the mini is being rallied in both s2000 and wrc flavours, seems an obvious thing to do?
The Swedish rally was good to watch on motors tv - probably mainly because it was on proper snow for once instead of mud/gravel.
I think the new cars are a let down - i know they are nearly as quick as before but just look at them, a 3 door fiesta and a 3 door odd looking Citroen, both esentially based on crappy little shopping cars.
What does that say about the top echelon of rallying?
Even just a few years ago the cars looked spectacular - hence a whole generation of rally subaru's, evo's etc. Now the WRC is just little 3 door hatchbacks - its a pretty lame formula to have such dull looking cars.
I think the new cars are a let down - i know they are nearly as quick as before but just look at them, a 3 door fiesta and a 3 door odd looking Citroen, both esentially based on crappy little shopping cars.
What does that say about the top echelon of rallying?
Even just a few years ago the cars looked spectacular - hence a whole generation of rally subaru's, evo's etc. Now the WRC is just little 3 door hatchbacks - its a pretty lame formula to have such dull looking cars.
The new regs cars do look rather puny even if power is more or less the same, just less torque. At least they are a lot harder to drive on the limit now. The ban on electronic aids like clever differentials, launch control and flappy paddle gearboxes etc is a good thing in my opinion.
EDLT said:
epom said:
I agree i rally enjoyed the rally, but raly cars based on pretty boring little shopping cars.... 205 T16 anyone ??
Then there is the Metro, Escort(s), Mini, Delta, Impreza and Lancer. Some people need to take off the rose-tinted specs.
The point I was making is the cars look crap, they do not look exciting, they look like production hatches - the WRC is supposed to be the pinnacle - not group N look alikes.
So dont quote things like 6R4 or Delta (I've competed on track beside geniune 6R4's in rallycross at Lydden and Blyton, and I saw them live on the RAC when they were current spec cars) there is nothing like the sound or sight of a group B car at full pelt - simply awesome to be close up to.
But we now have 1600cc front engined, 4wd production based cars with stock looking bodyshells, its a sad sight compared with many of the cars we used to have at the top level of rallying. Its not a rose tinted view the fact is the new cars are a bit feeble in comparisson.
So dont quote things like 6R4 or Delta (I've competed on track beside geniune 6R4's in rallycross at Lydden and Blyton, and I saw them live on the RAC when they were current spec cars) there is nothing like the sound or sight of a group B car at full pelt - simply awesome to be close up to.
But we now have 1600cc front engined, 4wd production based cars with stock looking bodyshells, its a sad sight compared with many of the cars we used to have at the top level of rallying. Its not a rose tinted view the fact is the new cars are a bit feeble in comparisson.
Most cars in rallying are the "shopping" cars. The Mini, Chevette, Escort and Fiat Mirafiori were all "Family" saloons or hatch's. The rules did allow variety however so we did see the Stratos, Beta 037, Manta, and 911 also "mixing" it. The current rules are like F1 and Touring cars a bit too restrictive compared to what we used to see.
Think of it another way, the top level (WRC) should attract manufacturers to get their cars represented on tv, then customers will aspire buy that model, and hopefully kids will want to get into rallying driving for themselves.
We now have Fiesta v's Citroen ds3 (soon to be followed by a Mini cross over). Its hardly Evo v's Impreza is it? Who is going to watch this and dream of one day owning a Fiesta or Citroen hatch?
We now have Fiesta v's Citroen ds3 (soon to be followed by a Mini cross over). Its hardly Evo v's Impreza is it? Who is going to watch this and dream of one day owning a Fiesta or Citroen hatch?
rallycross said:
Think of it another way, the top level (WRC) should attract manufacturers to get their cars represented on tv, then customers will aspire buy that model, and hopefully kids will want to get into rallying driving for themselves.
We now have Fiesta v's Citroen ds3 (soon to be followed by a Mini cross over). Its hardly Evo v's Impreza is it? Who is going to watch this and dream of one day owning a Fiesta or Citroen hatch?
I will. If the rumour is to come true about a Festa 4x4 RS then the cash will be on the dealers desk. And let's face it Evo's and Impreza's are really ugly looking shopping trolleys.We now have Fiesta v's Citroen ds3 (soon to be followed by a Mini cross over). Its hardly Evo v's Impreza is it? Who is going to watch this and dream of one day owning a Fiesta or Citroen hatch?
Anyways I get what you guys are on about re the old days of rally. In my younger days I stood in a Yorkshire forest at 3am to watch the Group B cars of that time. I will never forget that sound and speed of those Quattro's. Good times but sadly people died from those cars. Like F1 the sport had to shape up and the result is what we are left with today. But let's be honest. What we have seen this weekend on tv/youtube has to be way better than that other retarded dancing on ice show.
The Manufacturers who build these 'big' cars aren't interested in a WRC campaign. Those that are, have chosen to use the 'shopping trolleys' as you call them. Be grateful we still have a WRC - the last few years have been poor - only 2 marques have supported the series. Hopefully more will join - there are rumours about VW with Polo/Scirocco and Toyota with the Yaris - the more the merrier.
The current fashion by marques is small turbo-charged engines - so the FiA/WRC must follow.
The current fashion by marques is small turbo-charged engines - so the FiA/WRC must follow.
ArnageWRC said:
The Manufacturers who build these 'big' cars aren't interested in a WRC campaign. Those that are, have chosen to use the 'shopping trolleys' as you call them.
Thats how it has been for most of the history of the WRC and the various rallying trophies that came before it. Apart from the odd homologation special like the Stratos its always been tuned versions of relatively normal cars. Half of the Group B field were based on shopping trolleys (well, they were made to look a bit like one anyway).EDLT said:
Thats how it has been for most of the history of the WRC and the various rallying trophies that came before it. Apart from the odd homologation special like the Stratos its always been tuned versions of relatively normal cars. Half of the Group B field were based on shopping trolleys (well, they were made to look a bit like one anyway).
Agree, but my moan is the lack of variety and the TV coverage which makes it look like there is only 13 entrants.maybe there was..........
Skyedriver said:
EDLT said:
Thats how it has been for most of the history of the WRC and the various rallying trophies that came before it. Apart from the odd homologation special like the Stratos its always been tuned versions of relatively normal cars. Half of the Group B field were based on shopping trolleys (well, they were made to look a bit like one anyway).
Agree, but my moan is the lack of variety and the TV coverage which makes it look like there is only 13 entrants.maybe there was..........
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