An arguement

[anonymous-user]

I come here to start one.
But a good one.
Who was/is the greatest F1 driver of all time?

In my opinion, Schumacher in his prime. The lad was mind blowing, the him vs Mika battles were amazing. Just look at Spa 2000
He has done so much more for the sport than anyone else could even dream of. Not to mention his 7 titles. I have to admit he's past it now but he has nothing to prove. Doesn't need the money, he just wants to race.

• Edit I put the 'e' in argument. I know I fail.

Edited by PSBuckshot on Thursday 10th March 09:19

[GarrettMacD]

PSBuckshot said:

Who was/is the greatest F1 driver of all time?

In my opinion, Schumacher in his prime.

He's not even in the Top 10. Off the top of my head, better drivers than MS;
Clark, Nuvolari, Rosemeyer, Caracciola, Stewart, Brabham, Prost, Senna, Hill,
Fangio, Ascari. He probably would get into the Top 20 though. At 19th...

PSBuckshot said:

He has done so much more for the sport than anyone else could even dream of.

I disagree. I personally believe that Jackie Stewart had the greatest influence on the direction of F1, i.e. not having half the grid die every year in a ball of flames. Kind of ironic that his successor, Cevert, died in the sister car to Stewart's Tyrrell...

[ewenm]

Is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour?[/Python]

[Life Saab Itch]

As you specified F1, you have made choosing Nuvolari, Carraciola and Rosemeyer impossible.

But in F1, my list goes like this.

1. Clark
2. Senna
3. Fangio
4. Prost
5. Villeneuve (G)
6. Stewart
7. Ascari
8. Mansell
9. Peterson
10. Moss

[Life Saab Itch]

ewenm said:

Is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour?[/Python]

[anonymous-user]

I don't understand why people don't rate Schumacher as one of the all time greats. He has won more than anyone else, that must count for something.

• one to won

Edited by PSBuckshot on Thursday 10th March 11:05

[Eric Mc]

PSBuckshot said:

I come here to start one.
But a good one.
Who was/is the greatest F1 driver of all time?

In my opinion, Schumacher in his prime. The lad was mind blowing, the him vs Mika battles were amazing. Just look at Spa 2000
He has done so much more for the sport than anyone else could even dream of. Not to mention his 7 titles. I have to admit he's past it now but he has nothing to prove. Doesn't need the money, he just wants to race.

• Edit I put the 'e' in argument. I know I fail.

Edited by PSBuckshot on Thursday 10th March 09:19

What an original debating point .


Nuvolari.
Caracciola (the original regenmeister)
Szisz
Moss
Andretti
Ickx

All far nore complete drivers than Schumacher ever was or could be.

[Eric Mc]

PSBuckshot said:

I don't understand why people don't rate Schumacher as one of the all time greats. He has one more than anyone else, that must count for something.

Yes - it does - an accident of history (and cheating - of course).

[anonymous-user]

Eric Mc said:

Yes - it does - an accident of history (and cheating - of course).

When Senna used to do things like that it was never cheating though.

[Eric Mc]

PSBuckshot said:

Eric Mc said:

Yes - it does - an accident of history (and cheating - of course).

When Senna used to do things like that it was never cheating though.

You do notice I didn't include Senna in my list either.

[anonymous-user]

Eric Mc said:

You do notice I didn't include Senna in my list either.

I don't mean you. Just generalisation of most people, they accuse Schumacher of cheating but then when someone like Senna is mentioned it was always a different rule.

[Busamav]

PSBuckshot said:

I don't understand why people don't rate Schumacher as one of the all time greats. He has one more than anyone else, that must count for something.

One more what ?

[Satsuma]

senna never had the role of developing the current race tyre therefore ensuring it suited his style more than anybody else's, Also schumacher drove for ferrari during a time that some very favourable descisions were were made in his or their favour.
the only true an honest answer is.
you cannot compare drivers from different era.
who is the most sucessful of recent times: undeniably schumacher. but that is all he is.
Great driver yes
most sucessful of all time arguably
best driver: how do you begin to measure it. how many gp's did he win? how many rallies did he win? how many endurance road races did he win. how good was his assessment of risk? how good was he at driving a car on the limit that he had never driven before?

[Eric Mc]

PSBuckshot said:

Eric Mc said:

You do notice I didn't include Senna in my list either.

I don't mean you. Just generalisation of most people, they accuse Schumacher of cheating but then when someone like Senna is mentioned it was always a different rule.

Well you did quote me so I assumed that you were refering to my comment.

I personally don't rate Senna as highly as others for the same reasons I don't rate Schumacher,. They both had atributes to their character which grated with me and made me lose respect for them - no matter how successful they may have been.

In my opinion, in sport winning has never been everything - despite that being a popular assumption. HOW you win and lose is more important.

[DrTre]

Give Senna his due re 1990; he said there'd be an accident if Prost got to the corner first, and there was. Is that technically cheating?

[Eric Mc]

DrTre said:

Give Senna his due re 1990; he said there'd be an accident if Prost got to the corner first, and there was. Is that technically cheating?

Who said Senna cheated? I said Senna and Schumacher had atributes to their approach to racing that I didn't particularly like. I didn't say they that those atributes were the same.

Senna had a klind of integrity which can be admired. It doesn't mean I condoned some of his behaviour on track.

However, Schumacher lacked even that.

[DrTre]

a) I was being facetious and b) I wasn't meaning to imply I was responding to you, Eric, I was responding to point/perception:

PSBuckshot said:

Just generalisation of most people, they accuse Schumacher of cheating but then when someone like Senna is mentioned it was always a different rule.

TBH, there is a certain hypocrisy that goes on in respect to how Schumachers antics are seen when compared with others but, to me at least, Senna was upfront about being a bd. He didn't hugely care about how he was seen and that honesty changes things in my eyes, rightly or wrongly.

Edited by DrTre on Thursday 10th March 12:24

[anonymous-user]

At least people here haven't jumped on the Hamilton band wagon. The people who only started watching when he started. You know who you are.
He's not bad, but the people who've only just started watching think he is some kind of god. Almost Stig like.

[anonymous-user]

DrTre said:

TBH, there is a certain hypocrisy that goes on in respect to how Schumachers antics are seen when compared with others but, to me at least, Senna was upfront about being a bd. He didn't hugely care about how he was seen and that honesty changes things in my eyes, rightly or wrongly.

Edited by DrTre on Thursday 10th March 12:24

Without sounding nasty, if Senna was still alive now, I think people would have the same views about cheating as they do with Schumacher. I think dying has earned him some sympathy.

I'm not taking anything away from him though, he was class.

Edited by PSBuckshot on Thursday 10th March 12:37

[Tyre Smoke]

This is an impossible question to answer. Eric has it closest, you cannot measure success by winning at all costs, but it seems that is the way of the world and F1 these days. Gentlemen racing cars is consigned to history.

James Hunt, for example, all round cad and boundah, typical PHer hero. Could drive fairly well too. Against the likes of Fangio? No comparison is really possible but it might be easier to compare those two than say, Fangio and Michael Schumacher or even Mark Webber and Sir Stirling Moss.

In short there is no definitive answer and never will be. Too many variables.

One thing though, definitely NOT Nigel Wet Weather Moustache Mansell.