2013 F1 engines, what are the chances of them happening...
Discussion
I know the new engine regs have been dicussed on here at length before, but i'm just interested to see what peoples opinions are on them actually going ahead with it and signing the necessary 'concord agreement'
I see that apparently all of the teams (except for Ferrari) are happy to go ahead with them, which does surprise me somewhat, at least on cost grounds, but that Ferrari and especially Bernie are dead against them.
I have quite strong views against them, i'm sure other people will too, and there might be the odd eco-mentalist on here that will try and promote the good in them, but i won't go into that.
Bernie and Ferrari usually get their own way with most things, and no doubt there will be the threat of Ferrari pulling out, which i'm surprised i haven't 'officially' heard off them yet although Bernie did hint at it, when he said in his latest press release - "F1 needs 2 things to survive, those are Ferrari and the noise" and i can't say i don't agree with him...
So what do we think the outcome will be...
I see that apparently all of the teams (except for Ferrari) are happy to go ahead with them, which does surprise me somewhat, at least on cost grounds, but that Ferrari and especially Bernie are dead against them.
I have quite strong views against them, i'm sure other people will too, and there might be the odd eco-mentalist on here that will try and promote the good in them, but i won't go into that.
Bernie and Ferrari usually get their own way with most things, and no doubt there will be the threat of Ferrari pulling out, which i'm surprised i haven't 'officially' heard off them yet although Bernie did hint at it, when he said in his latest press release - "F1 needs 2 things to survive, those are Ferrari and the noise" and i can't say i don't agree with him...
So what do we think the outcome will be...
Edited by chuno on Monday 21st March 16:47
Edited by chuno on Monday 21st March 16:47
I think, sadly, its pretty much a 'done deal'. Crappy little 1.6 litre, 4 cylinder turbo engines.....
At the very least the regs could have allowed V6 turbo engines although i personally, as i have said elsewhere, would prefer 3.5 litre V10's, V12's & maybe a flat 12 in the back of a certain red car from Italy.
Proper big powerful noisy engines is what we want & not small capacity turbo engines.
IMO anyway.
At the very least the regs could have allowed V6 turbo engines although i personally, as i have said elsewhere, would prefer 3.5 litre V10's, V12's & maybe a flat 12 in the back of a certain red car from Italy.
Proper big powerful noisy engines is what we want & not small capacity turbo engines.
IMO anyway.
So does Bernie have no say in how the sport is run then?
Incidently, last night i was listening to some of the old V10 sound clips on You Tube. I remember them sounding good, but listening to the below link is almost spine-tingling, and even better than i remember them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBxw4whvBiA
I know it's not the end of the world and all that, but i find it so sad that such an evocative sound as that will now be confined to the history books..
Incidently, last night i was listening to some of the old V10 sound clips on You Tube. I remember them sounding good, but listening to the below link is almost spine-tingling, and even better than i remember them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBxw4whvBiA
I know it's not the end of the world and all that, but i find it so sad that such an evocative sound as that will now be confined to the history books..
In this interview with Bernie, he says it's fine with him as long as the noise is still there.
http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2011/3/117...
Worrying really, wish they would bring back the V10s
http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2011/3/117...
Worrying really, wish they would bring back the V10s
george h said:
wish they would bring back the V10s
Wish they would bring back the V12's....Wish they would bring back the Flat 12's....
Wish they would bring back the V16's....
Wish they would bring back the The Straight 8's....
Wish they would bring back the Blower Bentley's....
Wish they would bring back the Steam Engine's....
Wish they would bring back the Horse's....
Wish they would bring back the The stone age....
fatboy69 said:
I think, sadly, its pretty much a 'done deal'. Crappy little 1.6 litre, 4 cylinder turbo engines.....
At the very least the regs could have allowed V6 turbo engines although i personally, as i have said elsewhere, would prefer 3.5 litre V10's, V12's & maybe a flat 12 in the back of a certain red car from Italy.
Proper big powerful noisy engines is what we want & not small capacity turbo engines.
IMO anyway.
Funny, BMW used crappy little 1.5 l 4 cyl turbos back in the 1980s and people seemed to like them back then...At the very least the regs could have allowed V6 turbo engines although i personally, as i have said elsewhere, would prefer 3.5 litre V10's, V12's & maybe a flat 12 in the back of a certain red car from Italy.
Proper big powerful noisy engines is what we want & not small capacity turbo engines.
IMO anyway.
I don't know why they don't let some teams use these and other teams continue with the current (or enlarged for competitiveness) NA engines.
The whole thrust of F1 regulations for many years has been making cars identical, so that they are practically designed by the FIA now, and this produces boring races because everyone has the same performance at the same time.
The whole thrust of F1 regulations for many years has been making cars identical, so that they are practically designed by the FIA now, and this produces boring races because everyone has the same performance at the same time.
CPDMotorsport said:
Wish they would bring back the V12's....
Wish they would bring back the Flat 12's....
Wish they would bring back the V16's....
Wish they would bring back the The Straight 8's....
Wish they would bring back the Blower Bentley's....
Wish they would bring back the Steam Engine's....
Wish they would bring back the Horse's....
Wish they would bring back the The stone age....
Now that would make a good F1 series! Perfect, perhapd you should suggest it..Wish they would bring back the Flat 12's....
Wish they would bring back the V16's....
Wish they would bring back the The Straight 8's....
Wish they would bring back the Blower Bentley's....
Wish they would bring back the Steam Engine's....
Wish they would bring back the Horse's....
Wish they would bring back the The stone age....
Although not sure how the stone age would work. hmmm.
Its going to happen, no doubt... and I'd wager the 4-pot turbos will be obscenely loud, just different loud!
(If it where up to me the engine regs would be V simple- Dyno confirmed 1000bhp + 250bhp KERS by any method you like using a FIA defined liquid fuel, so long as the cars have more power than grip and areo can tame all the better)
One thing that troubles me is that this was suggested for cost and economy, surely sticking with the current engines and freezing developement would be cheaper?
(If it where up to me the engine regs would be V simple- Dyno confirmed 1000bhp + 250bhp KERS by any method you like using a FIA defined liquid fuel, so long as the cars have more power than grip and areo can tame all the better)
One thing that troubles me is that this was suggested for cost and economy, surely sticking with the current engines and freezing developement would be cheaper?
chuno said:
CPDMotorsport said:
Wish they would bring back the V12's....
Wish they would bring back the Flat 12's....
Wish they would bring back the V16's....
Wish they would bring back the The Straight 8's....
Wish they would bring back the Blower Bentley's....
Wish they would bring back the Steam Engine's....
Wish they would bring back the Horse's....
Wish they would bring back the The stone age....
Now that would make a good F1 series! Perfect, perhapd you should suggest it..Wish they would bring back the Flat 12's....
Wish they would bring back the V16's....
Wish they would bring back the The Straight 8's....
Wish they would bring back the Blower Bentley's....
Wish they would bring back the Steam Engine's....
Wish they would bring back the Horse's....
Wish they would bring back the The stone age....
Although not sure how the stone age would work. hmmm.
Truth is the 'V10 only' era was crap, 5 Schumacher championships and the dullest racing ever. I can't say I've noticed any difference in the sound either.
Before the V10 it was V12 and V8, before that it was V6 and I4, before that it was V8 (again) before taht it was something else. Its always bloody changing, will people stop moaning about something that we haven't seen or heard running let alone racing yet.
Its pathetic, Bernie is only gas bagging to get some free publicity by being controversial... I thought people would have caught onto this! after all he's only been doing it for 20 years.
I don particulary have a problem with the 1.6 turbo 4's. After all the BMW from the mid 80's was hardly dull!
I found an SAE paper of the fuel consumption of the 1.5 Honda V6 from the 80's and did some maths around the fuel flow limit. Assuming 100% efficency there is enough fuel to produce 1650bhp, so assuming 33% efficiency we will get 545bhp plus the KERS. This also assumes no improvemnts over 1980's engine tech. I think it is therefore safe to assume that max power won't be to far short of what we had in 2010 when you include KERS.
What I don't get though, is as they are supposed to be saving money surely a twin turbo 1.8 V6 would have been better, the same 90 degree 300cc per cylider core architecture could have been carried across. Yes there would have to be detail changes to port shapes, pistons, cams, etc for the forced induction, but now they have got to design a new core engine as well.
I found an SAE paper of the fuel consumption of the 1.5 Honda V6 from the 80's and did some maths around the fuel flow limit. Assuming 100% efficency there is enough fuel to produce 1650bhp, so assuming 33% efficiency we will get 545bhp plus the KERS. This also assumes no improvemnts over 1980's engine tech. I think it is therefore safe to assume that max power won't be to far short of what we had in 2010 when you include KERS.
What I don't get though, is as they are supposed to be saving money surely a twin turbo 1.8 V6 would have been better, the same 90 degree 300cc per cylider core architecture could have been carried across. Yes there would have to be detail changes to port shapes, pistons, cams, etc for the forced induction, but now they have got to design a new core engine as well.
When I was involved in F1 3 weeks ago the I4 turbo was definitely NOT on the cards. It's still rumoured but nothing given the nod yet.
To get an engine robust and ready by 2013? It's doable but it will be VERY expensive and require a LOT of people to get it done.
Still, it's all about saving money and helping the planet ain't it.
What a load of b
ks. tbh Bernie is the only person talking sense on this matter. It's a waste of time, effort and energy.
To get an engine robust and ready by 2013? It's doable but it will be VERY expensive and require a LOT of people to get it done.
Still, it's all about saving money and helping the planet ain't it.
What a load of b
ks. tbh Bernie is the only person talking sense on this matter. It's a waste of time, effort and energy.Pointless token gesture at greenery. If they were serious about being green they'd look to cut the distances travelled in the season by crew and equipment before messing about with the engine formula.
More about attracting the likes of VW so that they can market crappy four cylinder road car engines off a tenuous link to F1. The machinery should be exotic, any superficial similarity to what is found in mundane road cars is undesirable.
More about attracting the likes of VW so that they can market crappy four cylinder road car engines off a tenuous link to F1. The machinery should be exotic, any superficial similarity to what is found in mundane road cars is undesirable.
ridds said:
When I was involved in F1 3 weeks ago the I4 turbo was definitely NOT on the cards. It's still rumoured but nothing given the nod yet.
I hate to burst your bubble when I was at work about 3 hours ago working for one of the 4 F1 engine suppliers designing bits for the new I4 Turbo it definately was on the cards.Forums | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff