F1 - why not bigger engines?

[130R]

With the engine rules in F1 moving towards smaller and smaller engines, what is the reason for not using a bigger engine with a lower rev limit? Something like a 4L V8 with a lower rev limit to keep the power down to say 800 hp. Surely this would be cheaper and more reliable (have extended engine life) over a highly strung smaller capacity engine, or is this a misconception? What would the fuel usage be in an engine like this vs the 2013 1.6 litre 4-cylinder engines?

[Henry Fiddleton]

I agree with this- I remember when STR ran with a detuned v10; Brundle mentioned they were pretty much bomb proof at 16,000 RPM.

[nonplussed]

Another immediate benefit would be that they'd probably sound better than the current buzzbombs.

[xr287]

For "racing" types like us who would enjoy the better sound and the teams who would appreciate the lower running costs and increased reliability it would be fine.

The problem is they are trying to build this "green" image so they have to run engine sizes that are semi relevant to cars today so they can say they are helping in the development of high efficiency low emissions engines.

At least thats how I see it.

[scubadude]

130R said:

With the engine rules in F1 moving towards smaller and smaller engines,

"With the engine rules in F1 moving BACK towards smaller and smaller engines WITH TURBOS"

Its nothing new, we're just going back to revisit the Turbo era, 1.5ltr 4-pot with 1500+hp was done 30yrs ago in F1.

Low tech unstressed iron block V8's? Sounds like NASCAR, yes the noise might be more aurally satisfying but F1 has to be the bleeding edge.

It it where my job to make the regs I would fix the BHP at the wheel and let them produce the power anyway they liked, can you imagine the noise of a grid of mixed motors- petrol, diesel, ethanol, gas, hydrogen, electric, hybrid, turbine, recipricating pistions, wankels :-)

[anonymous-user]

Reliability wise - they would still make them as light as possible, so i don't think it would make too much difference. Not very many straight engine failures anyway recently - few Fezzas last year but a lot of engine failures are caused by ancillaries - e.g. lack of cooling - and this risk would be unchanged.

A larger capacity engine potentially less efficient to friction losses?

[thrdkilr]

130R said:

With the engine rules in F1 moving towards smaller and smaller engines, what is the reason for not using a bigger engine with a lower rev limit? Something like a 4L V8 with a lower rev limit to keep the power down to say 800 hp. Surely this would be cheaper and more reliable (have extended engine life) over a highly strung smaller capacity engine, or is this a misconception? What would the fuel usage be in an engine like this vs the 2013 1.6 litre 4-cylinder engines?

Have you not heard?, They're trying to be GREEN.

[AJS-]

In my opinion trying to be green is a mistake. There's no way that a bunch of multi millionaires driving around in circles very fast is ever going to pass the green test.

Fortunately it's small and absurd enough to have been off their radar so far (unless I've missed some serious controversy?) so why do this?

Especially now that the whole silly business seems to be on the way out anyway.

[ZeeTacoe]

Inertiatic said:

A larger capacity engine potentially less efficient to friction losses?

but you'll get some back by having a better volume to surface area ratio

[Eric Mc]

How large would you like?

The biggest F1 engines used were 4.5 normally aspirated in the early 1950s.
The smallest were the 1.5 normally aspirated of the early 1960s.

[touring fan]

To quote the excellent words from 'CPDMotorsport' in another thread, on the recurring theme that seems to run through this forum of 'anything different or new is crap compared to the old days';

Wish they would bring back the V12's....
Wish they would bring back the Flat 12's....
Wish they would bring back the V16's....
Wish they would bring back the The Straight 8's....
Wish they would bring back the Blower Bentley's....
Wish they would bring back the Steam Engine's....
Wish they would bring back the Horse's....
Wish they would bring back the The stone age....

[Eric Mc]

I would like more variety though.

[130R]

touring fan said:

To quote the excellent words from 'CPDMotorsport' in another thread, on the recurring theme that seems to run through this forum of 'anything different or new is crap compared to the old days';

But this would be something new and different.

Bigger capacity and lower revs does not have to mean low tech, and what exactly is wrong with low tech anyway if it is better? You wouldn't stop someone building a house and say "bricks? that's from the stone age mate, what you want to do is build that out of carbon fiber"

[otolith]

touring fan said:

To quote the excellent words from 'CPDMotorsport'

Well he would be in favour of them, wouldn't he, he's involved in making the damn things

[ZeeTacoe]

touring fan said:

To quote the excellent words from 'CPDMotorsport' in another thread, on the recurring theme that seems to run through this forum of 'anything different or new is crap compared to the old days;

Wish they would bring back the V12s....
Wish they would bring back the Flat 12s....
Wish they would bring back the V16s....
Wish they would bring back the The Straight 8s....
Wish they would bring back the Blower Bentleys....
Wish they would bring back the Steam Engines....
Wish they would bring back the Horses....
Wish they would bring back the The stone age....

ARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

[Fire99]

Planned power outputs of whatever chosen engine configuration is probably an argument unto itself but I certainly believe there should be flexibility in the rules to allow V, Flat layouts etc so to give the teams some ability to stretch their legs.

Considering all that goes into the F1 'circus' as a whole, this green malarkey is a bit of a nonsense.

Just the discarded rubber on the track is probably enough to make the green party have a head-flip.

[Munter]

All they need to do is restrict the fuel supply like the tyre supply.

You have "X" Gallons of fuel for the weekend. How you burn it is up to you (so long as it's safe). Good luck.

[fatboy69]

1.6 litre four cylinder single turbo's? Cant wait......

Seriously though, i dont buy this 'going green' crap that seems to be getting dumped on F1. It is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport yet we getted lumbered with stty little engines.

Personally it isnt something that i want at all. I would prefer 'proper' engines with lots of cylinders ,aking lots of noise.

[MG CHRIS]

We have had them before with more power than today. Is anybody satisfied with f1 these day FFS. Look we are going towards smaller forced inductioned engine as long as it has the same bhp im not botherd weather it a v8,v10 w16 or what ever. Last race was 1 of the most exciting races ive seen for ages and people are still not satisfied what do people what cars going back 20 years to what is was like during the late 80s early 90s. Its no way its going to go back like that. Manual gearbox will never come, v12 will not come back not many road cars with v12 these days, Get over it ffs

[majordad]

Eh, I'd still like to see V12s and manual gearboxes and I'm NOT getting over it.