Discussion
For me the Ford name in F1 is historic and valuable - you of course have the DFV engine - the most successful F1 engine ever. However, Ford no longer seemingly have the capability to produce an engine that can win and havent done for decades. You of course have the factor that the smallest teams generally have been Ford 'customer' engine buyers for some time which skews Ford to the back of the grid from the start but even having said that in recent history 3 teams have been buying the engine (one major supply perhaps and two minor) which surely means there is money for investment? at 10 + 10 + 15 million for the engines, while I appreciate the providing of the engines has a cost, it seems as though Ford should be in a position to make more headway? I dont know how much of the operation is still Ford / Cosworth or who owns the operation but the fundamental question for me is - with Ford having a strong customer base - why can the engines not win races?
paolow said:
For me the Ford name in F1 is historic and valuable - you of course have the DFV engine - the most successful F1 engine ever. However, Ford no longer seemingly have the capability to produce an engine that can win and havent done for decades. You of course have the factor that the smallest teams generally have been Ford 'customer' engine buyers for some time which skews Ford to the back of the grid from the start but even having said that in recent history 3 teams have been buying the engine (one major supply perhaps and two minor) which surely means there is money for investment? at 10 + 10 + 15 million for the engines, while I appreciate the providing of the engines has a cost, it seems as though Ford should be in a position to make more headway? I dont know how much of the operation is still Ford / Cosworth or who owns the operation but the fundamental question for me is - with Ford having a strong customer base - why can the engines not win races?
How much input did Ford have in the DFV? I thought it was built by Cosworth, who just happened to be owned by Ford. Ford are already in NASCAR, WRC and enormous, crippling debt.
paolow said:
Name notwithstanding - Ford - Cosworth - same company no?
No."Cosworth was initially an independent company, later becoming part of United Engineering Industries (UEI) and subsequently Vickers, but also had a long association with Ford Motor Company and was a subsidiary of Ford between 1998 and 2004.[2] In 2004, Cosworth and Pi Research were sold by Ford to the current Cosworth Group owned by Gerald Forsythe and Kevin Kalkhoven.[2]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosworth
EDLT said:
How much input did Ford have in the DFV? I thought it was built by Cosworth, who just happened to be owned by Ford.
Ford are already in NASCAR, WRC and enormous, crippling debt.
And Ford are only in the WRC thanks to the sponsorship of Abu Dhabi - which without, they probably wouldn't be in. Ford put very little cash into their WRC program compared to Citroen.Ford are already in NASCAR, WRC and enormous, crippling debt.
If my memory is correct:
At the time the DFV was built by Cosworth the only thing Ford had to do with it was paying the bill.
Colin Chapman persuaded the chairman/boss of Ford UK (Walter Hayes?) to fund an engine and he agreed.
Ford put up £100,000 and got the most successfully F1 engine ever. Not a bad deal!
One other point - one of the people that ran Cosworth at the time used to work for Colin - it was either Mike Costain or Keith Duckworth - as they were the two people that ran/owned Cosworth at the time.
Having worked in a few DFVs I will say that they are very nice bits of kit, very well engineered and a joy to work on.
At the time the DFV was built by Cosworth the only thing Ford had to do with it was paying the bill.
Colin Chapman persuaded the chairman/boss of Ford UK (Walter Hayes?) to fund an engine and he agreed.
Ford put up £100,000 and got the most successfully F1 engine ever. Not a bad deal!
One other point - one of the people that ran Cosworth at the time used to work for Colin - it was either Mike Costain or Keith Duckworth - as they were the two people that ran/owned Cosworth at the time.
Having worked in a few DFVs I will say that they are very nice bits of kit, very well engineered and a joy to work on.
skeggysteve said:
If my memory is correct:
At the time the DFV was built by Cosworth the only thing Ford had to do with it was paying the bill.
Colin Chapman persuaded the chairman/boss of Ford UK (Walter Hayes?) to fund an engine and he agreed.
Ford put up £100,000 and got the most successfully F1 engine ever. Not a bad deal!
One other point - one of the people that ran Cosworth at the time used to work for Colin - it was either Mike Costain or Keith Duckworth - as they were the two people that ran/owned Cosworth at the time.
Having worked in a few DFVs I will say that they are very nice bits of kit, very well engineered and a joy to work on.
Correct, I'll just add a couple of details.At the time the DFV was built by Cosworth the only thing Ford had to do with it was paying the bill.
Colin Chapman persuaded the chairman/boss of Ford UK (Walter Hayes?) to fund an engine and he agreed.
Ford put up £100,000 and got the most successfully F1 engine ever. Not a bad deal!
One other point - one of the people that ran Cosworth at the time used to work for Colin - it was either Mike Costain or Keith Duckworth - as they were the two people that ran/owned Cosworth at the time.
Having worked in a few DFVs I will say that they are very nice bits of kit, very well engineered and a joy to work on.
Keith Duckworth worked for Lotus in the early days as a gearbox technician. He took over from some bloke called Graham Hill who went off to try his hand at racing. Duckworth fell out with Colin Chapman when Chapman refused to make the dog-flanks of the Lotus "Queerbox" larger. Duckworth quit because he knew that unless this happened, the 'box would be unreliable and he was on a road to nowhere (he was eventually proven right).
Whilst at Lotus, Duckworth met Mike Costin who was Chapman's right hand man at the time. Costin was looking for a way out of Lotus and agreed to start a company "messing about with engines" with Duckworth. On announcing to Chapman his intention to leave, Chapman made him an offer that was difficult to refuse, so Keith started Cosworth up on his own for the first 3 years until Mike Costin's updated Lotus contract came to a close.
Keith subbed all his engineering work out to a small company called Rood Engineering. Eventually, Cosworth bought the company out and Ben Rood became a vital part of Cosworth's success.
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