"Do not use KERS unless you know what to do next...."

[Tyre Smoke]

Says Vettel's engineer over the radio in Malaysia.

Soon afterwards both he and Webber start to go faster/hold their own a lot better.

Hidden meaning? Some skullduggery afoot? It's no secret that Adrian Newey is no fan of KERS, so is there something dodgy going on?

[paulrockliffe]

I did notice that Vettel started banging in quick laps quite soon after he'd been told not to use KERS and wondered if he was using it. But there's a delay in the TV fed isn't there, so I don't know if the correlation fits exactly. Is that exactly what was said? Seems very odd, considering Vettel should definitely know how to drive his car.

[Gillet]

There's also the fact their KERS bar never seems to get used, EVER! I wander if they've worked out a way of using it all the time as opposed to having a button, or something like that.

Can't beat a good conspiracy

[Tyre Smoke]

He definitely said it, and I was not surprised that neither DC or MB mentioned it - They never seem to comment on cryptic messages.

I thought it was a very odd thing to say.

[Minel]

was picked up by the italian commentators.... they thought he may have had some issues with KERS itself....

[Tyre Smoke]

Yes, shortly after this was relayed to broadcast either Martin or David commented on the on screen graphic to the effect that despite being told not to use it, some of his KERS usage had been deployed.

[Tinfoil hat] Do you think they have some system akin to the old 'pulling a fuse to disable the tachograph' to allow KERS all the time? [/Tinfoil hat] Although, you can't use KERS all the time by it's very nature.

I reckon there's something not right there.

[mrmr96]

Tyre Smoke said:

Although, you can't use KERS all the time by it's very nature.

What do you mean by that?

I think people are a bit confused by the on screen graphics. Sorry, I'll rephrase that, the on screen graphics are confusing to some people. I'll explain how it works:

KERS will regenerate power each time the brakes are pressed until the batteries are full.
When the KERS electric motor is deployed it will start to drain the batteries.
It takes a LOT less than a full lap to fully recharge the batteries.

The mechanics of the system would mean that you'd have SOME charge in the battery at the start of every straight because every straight is preceded by a braking zone. So mechanically it is entirely possible to use it every time you hit the gas pedal.

However the rules of the system dictate that KERS can only be used for (IIRC) 7 seconds per lap. The 'battery' icon on screen would be better represented by a countdown timer which counts from 7secs to 0secs as the permitted allocation is used up since the on screen battery bears no relation to the actual charge state of the batteries on board, only the number of seconds use remaining under the rules.

[The Pits]

I was about to post exactly the same question. Vettel went a lot quicker without kers despite supposedly carrying the extra weight. Definitely something fishy going on.

All I know is that newey's 'aggressive packaging' means that he didn't leave much room for it. That would support the idea that they have a small, light version of kers. A mini kers, certainly a different approach is being used.

I thought the flexi wings thing was a conspiracy but that's turned out to be the case and what's more it's still going on.

As a huge fan of Colin chapman, it would be inconsistent of me not to admire newey's ability to 'flex' the rules but if vettel isn't challenged soon I'll be switching off f1 before the end of the season.

Edited by The Pits on Wednesday 13th April 17:27

[Munter]

Imagine if it had failed in a way that meant if he used it, it would constantly generate drag until he reset something.

So don;t use the Kers unless you know what to do next, otherwise you'll slow yourself down.

[Jasandjules]

Munter said:

Imagine if it had failed in a way that meant if he used it, it would constantly generate drag until he reset something.

So don;t use the Kers unless you know what to do next, otherwise you'll slow yourself down.

That's actually how I read it i.e. once you use KERS you need to adjust something in the car or else you will slow down SO once able to use it and not have it impede the car afterwards, then it's extra performance time.

[mrmr96]

PW said:

There is no "extra" weight with KERS. With or without it they are all ballasted up to the minimum 640kg weight - specifically increased this year to make sure there was no weight advantage to leaving it off.

HTH.

I understand your point, but remember that there is still a disadvantage from a weight distribution POV.

[MondeoMan1981]

Munter said:

Imagine if it had failed in a way that meant if he used it, it would constantly generate drag until he reset something.

So don;t use the Kers unless you know what to do next, otherwise you'll slow yourself down.

Doesnt use of KERS require a different brake balance or something along those lines. Maybe a reminder for him that if he was going to try it, he'd have to adjust balance, and then if it didnt work, change it back etc.

[NHK244V]

MondeoMan1981 said:

Doesnt use of KERS require a different brake balance or something along those lines. Maybe a reminder for him that if he was going to try it, he'd have to adjust balance, and then if it didnt work, change it back etc.

When kers isnt charging the brake balence is less on the rear so the driver has to re balence the brakes but the in car balence isnt enough to totaly compensate hense the slower laps due to an unbalenced car under braking more so than the less power.
It was all explained during and after the race including that soon after Vettels message not to use kers it started working agin, no conspiricy here.

[Tyre Smoke]

Dammit! I love a good conspiracy. My comment above re using KERS all the time, was the point that it 'recharges' under braking so cannot be permanently deployed. It was much better explained by someone else.
Couldn't Red Bull fiddle the system to give their cars more than 7s worth of KERS per lap? The cryptic comment being made to fool the other teams into thinking they were fast without it. Sandbagging illegally?

[Tyre Smoke]

Edited by Tyre Smoke on Wednesday 13th April 20:20

[deveng]

Tyre Smoke said:

Couldn't Red Bull fiddle the system to give their cars more than 7s worth of KERS per lap?

Since the FIA monitor KERS energy, power and time in/out I doubt they could fiddle it. And if red bull could, why couldn't everyone else? Red bull are using a Renault system that came as part of the engine package.

[The Pits]

Red Bull have found a way to get round the FIA front wing flex tests so why not the KERS tests too?

[stephen300o]

mrmr96 said:

PW said:

There is no "extra" weight with KERS. With or without it they are all ballasted up to the minimum 640kg weight - specifically increased this year to make sure there was no weight advantage to leaving it off.

HTH.

I understand your point, but remember that there is still a disadvantage from a weight distribution POV.

The weight distribution rules have changed, your not allowed to put it where you like anymore.

[skwdenyer]

stephen300o said:

The weight distribution rules have changed, your not allowed to put it where you like anymore.

More precisely, you can put it anywhere you like vertically, but you can't adjust the fore-aft distribution.

[anonymous-user]

deveng said:

Since the FIA monitor KERS energy, power and time in/out I doubt they could fiddle it. And if red bull could, why couldn't everyone else? Red bull are using a Renault system that came as part of the engine package.

Nope - Horner/Newey (can't remember) said they are using the basics of the Renault KERS system but their own control systems. this seems to be where they hyave been having problems, The car hasn't been designed to utilise KERS as it is an evolution of the 2010 car. I'm assuming they have space/cooling issues