A Driver Speaks - 4c Not Keen

[kiteless]

What a refreshing soundbite of honesty from young Vettel:

Asked by the sport's official website which current regulations he would like to change, the reigning world champion answered: "I would put a V12 engine in the car - (I'm) against all the four-cylinder advocacy."

And

Vettel said: "I definitely would go for a lot of power, a nice sound -- some brutal machinery so that you have to rise above yourself every time you jump back into the car."

http://www.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOne/Vettel-crits-...

[Streps]

So it's Bernie
Most fans and some drivers VS Todt and the FIA.

Who will win?

Edited by Streps on Friday 22 April 23:43

[F1 Contractor]

Or... its Bernie (a man who only looks after himself), a group of replaceable hired hands (drivers) and people wining on the internet.

Vs

The FIA, 3 of the worlds biggest car makers (Mercedes/Daimler group, VAG and Renault Group) and progress.

[davislove]

Streps said:

So it's Bernie
Most fans and some drivers VS Todt and the FIA.

Who will win?

Edited by Streps on Friday 22 April 23:43

its too late I fear, these things are already in development

[davepoth]

If they're allowed to wind the boost up like they used to, it'll be plenty exciting.

[anonymous-user]

davepoth said:

If they're allowed to wind the boost up like they used to, it'll be plenty exciting.

4 cyclinder turbos sounded great before, but winding the boost up on a 4 cylinder engine to 1300 bhp surely means it won't last long. That means it won't happen these days as engines need to last 3-4 race weekends each.

[davepoth]

MSTRBKR said:

4 cyclinder turbos sounded great before, but winding the boost up on a 4 cylinder engine to 1300 bhp surely means it won't last long. That means it won't happen these days as engines need to last 3-4 race weekends each.

Mind you, engine technology wasn't what it is now. The BMW blocks came from scrapyards, for example...

[Lost soul]

davepoth said:

Mind you, engine technology wasn't what it is now. The BMW blocks came from scrapyards, for example...

Urban myth

[F1 Contractor]

All this 'wining' about the I4 engines is now the most ridiculous and hilarious thing I have ever heard, a group of us at work often have a good chuckle at the rubbish written by people who think they're in the know but clearly haven't got a clue or just like moaning. Heres a few reasons why we find the keyboard warriors laughable:

1) "It won't allow innovation and creativity" Anyone who has been involved with the project will know that the new I4's make the V8's look like steam engines in terms of tech' and developement, some truly exciting stuff is being tried. Did anyone know for instance that the rule is Inline 4 with 'forced induction' there is no mention of a turbocharger, you can force that air in however you like and there is NO LIMIT to the amount of boost.

2) "They won't sound great so people won't watch" Oh come on I have heard so rubbish in my time but that is just brilliant, the 80's Turbo cars sounded insane, the Group B I4 Turbos (205 T16 etc) sounded mental, even the older 2.0 Turbo WRC cars of the 90's 00's were an awesome sounding peice of kit. With the levels of boost, anti-lag systems, huge power KERS and all the other tech these things are going to sound like a jet engine full of angry tigers. Not that most people will care anyway, as long as the racing is good people will watch.

3) "Bernie doesn't want it" Really? or could it be that Bernie is whipping-up a media frenzy so that the audience doubles for the first race of 2013 as people want to see what happens?

4) "I don't think it will happen..." It's definately, 100% happening, and its not that it will happen, its already started. The V8's are being phased out, design is underway, running engines are just weeks away.

So stop living in the past, stop moaning about stuff that most no nothing about, and actually wait and see what happens. I am really excited, its the first time in years were F1 will be leading technology again and have somethine truly new and innovative.

[telecat]

F1 Contractor said:

All this 'wining' about the I4 engines is now the most ridiculous and hilarious thing I have ever heard, a group of us at work often have a good chuckle at the rubbish written by people who think they're in the know but clearly haven't got a clue or just like moaning. Heres a few reasons why we find the keyboard warriors laughable:

1) "It won't allow innovation and creativity" Anyone who has been involved with the project will know that the new I4's make the V8's look like steam engines in terms of tech' and developement, some truly exciting stuff is being tried. Did anyone know for instance that the rule is Inline 4 with 'forced induction' there is no mention of a turbocharger, you can force that air in however you like and there is NO LIMIT to the amount of boost.

2) "They won't sound great so people won't watch" Oh come on I have heard so rubbish in my time but that is just brilliant, the 80's Turbo cars sounded insane, the Group B I4 Turbos (205 T16 etc) sounded mental, even the older 2.0 Turbo WRC cars of the 90's 00's were an awesome sounding peice of kit. With the levels of boost, anti-lag systems, huge power KERS and all the other tech these things are going to sound like a jet engine full of angry tigers. Not that most people will care anyway, as long as the racing is good people will watch.

3) "Bernie doesn't want it" Really? or could it be that Bernie is whipping-up a media frenzy so that the audience doubles for the first race of 2013 as people want to see what happens?

4) "I don't think it will happen..." It's definately, 100% happening, and its not that it will happen, its already started. The V8's are being phased out, design is underway, running engines are just weeks away.

So stop living in the past, stop moaning about stuff that most no nothing about, and actually wait and see what happens. I am really excited, its the first time in years were F1 will be leading technology again and have somethine truly new and innovative.

Somethings wrong because the BHP is being mentioned as limited to 600BHP. Given the way technology has moved on 1000 may be reliably pulled out of a 4 pot "Forced Induction" engine. Personally I do not mind the engines changing to 1.6 turbo's providing that's the only thing being limited. The last set of Turbo engines saw inline 4's V6's and V8 turbo's scrapping it out.

[Munter]

F1 Contractor said:

1) "It won't allow innovation and creativity" Anyone who has been involved with the project will know that the new I4's make the V8's look like steam engines in terms of tech' and developement, some truly exciting stuff is being tried. Did anyone know for instance that the rule is Inline 4 with 'forced induction' there is no mention of a turbocharger, you can force that air in however you like and there is NO LIMIT to the amount of boost.

If you were given a blank sheet to design an F1 engine. A forced induction inline 4 is what you and everybody else in the industry would choose?

I find that hard to believe. The V8s don't allow creativity and innovation either I grant you. But more open regulation would lead to more variety than we have or will get. And that variety is something people want.

[Lotus11]

F1 Contractor said:

All this 'wining' about the I4 engines is now the most ridiculous and hilarious thing I have ever heard, a group of us at work often have a good chuckle at the rubbish written by people who think they're in the know but clearly haven't got a clue or just like moaning. Heres a few reasons why we find the keyboard warriors laughable:

1) "It won't allow innovation and creativity" Anyone who has been involved with the project will know that the new I4's make the V8's look like steam engines in terms of tech' and developement, some truly exciting stuff is being tried. Did anyone know for instance that the rule is Inline 4 with 'forced induction' there is no mention of a turbocharger, you can force that air in however you like and there is NO LIMIT to the amount of boost.

2) "They won't sound great so people won't watch" Oh come on I have heard so rubbish in my time but that is just brilliant, the 80's Turbo cars sounded insane, the Group B I4 Turbos (205 T16 etc) sounded mental, even the older 2.0 Turbo WRC cars of the 90's 00's were an awesome sounding peice of kit. With the levels of boost, anti-lag systems, huge power KERS and all the other tech these things are going to sound like a jet engine full of angry tigers. Not that most people will care anyway, as long as the racing is good people will watch.

3) "Bernie doesn't want it" Really? or could it be that Bernie is whipping-up a media frenzy so that the audience doubles for the first race of 2013 as people want to see what happens?

4) "I don't think it will happen..." It's definately, 100% happening, and its not that it will happen, its already started. The V8's are being phased out, design is underway, running engines are just weeks away.

So stop living in the past, stop moaning about stuff that most no nothing about, and actually wait and see what happens. I am really excited, its the first time in years were F1 will be leading technology again and have somethine truly new and innovative.

Its not the downsizing that is the problem but more of why it is being introduced. Which most fans feel is because of the need to be seen to be green but not actually being green and for VAG who aren't actually in the sport and other manufactures to use as marketing. If it were about being green you would have just one set of tyres for the weekend, no flyaway races, unlimited KERS and x litres of petrol then the teams could do what they want engine wise. For F1 fans there is nothing wrong with v8's we have now so why change, why doe it matter if the v8's are steam engines.

[thunderbelmont]

F1 Contractor said:

So stop living in the past, stop moaning about stuff that most no nothing about, and actually wait and see what happens. I am really excited, its the first time in years were F1 will be leading technology again and have somethine truly new and innovative.

What's new and innovative about I4-forced induction engines?

Make 'em run 9 cylinder radials - that'd fk their packaging up! Then we *would* see innovation

Actually, no. I stand by my "car in a box" scenario - with the fuel restriction to level the playing field.
It's so simple - more power = more fuel consumption. More aero requires more power. And some seriously stressful fixed aero tests to stop the floppy wings (yes, I know you won't knock all of it out)

[davislove]

this is good debate but I still want a V12 engine!

[kiteless]

Lost soul said:

Urban myth

Indeed. The BMW turbo four had a block based - pretty much - on the road car engine from the 1960's Neu Klasse saloon.

If I could just pick up on F1C's "wining" tirade, and IMO, I personally don't have a major issue with 4C F1 engines. Back in the day, my favourite F1 car was the Parmalat Brabham of the early 80's, yes because it looked fooking awesome, but also because it was the most powerful car on the grid. In fact, thinking about it, I liked it for the fact that it produced most ponies from the smallest engine.

In fact, I've spent the last god knows how many years following bike racing which has some of the dullest sounding engines known to mankind (2002 Desmosedici / 1998 500cc 180 degree 2T / Aprilia RS3 excepted) yet has not dulled the racing.

I suppose in my OP I was alluding to the fact that a young, corporate F1 driver is still a boy who loves racing and would prefer to drive racing cars with lots of noisy cylinders burning fuel. Eyelikethat.

[davepoth]

Lost soul said:

davepoth said:

Mind you, engine technology wasn't what it is now. The BMW blocks came from scrapyards, for example...

Urban myth

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4...
http://www.research-racing.de/bmwturbo.htm
http://forums.autosport.com/lofiversion/index.php/...

There's a couple. The engine blocks came out of "well used" cars, so they either came out of cars that were then sent for scrap because they didn't have engines, or came from scrap themselves.

If it's an urban myth, why not post the irrefutable evidence you have to say that this wasn't the case?

[fluffnik]

thunderbelmont said:

Make 'em run 9 cylinder radials

[skinny]

unfortunately, although there's no restriction on boost pressure, there will be a fuel flow restriction, so that these engines won't be big power. we're talking around 600BHP plus 150BHP from KERS.

[andygo]

fluffnik said:

In a flat configuration, rather an 'on end' like in an aircrcraft application. Every timne they revved one up, it would spin the car..

[fluffnik]

andygo said:

In a flat configuration, rather an 'on end' like in an aircrcraft application. Every timne they revved one up, it would spin the car..

...even 3 contra-rotating rows of 3 wouldn't entirely solve that problem...